Opinions on the LR3

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
greenmeanie said:
Real older trucks have a stick in the middle and a third pedal. The only valves that get bunged up in the controller get fixed with laxative.


I still view auto boxes as too complex. It is far more difficult to fix in the field than dropping my old manual gearbox.
yep... whaty he said, there's not alot that can go wrong on old manual tranny trucks.

Hell with 245k on the body I bet it rattles less than an LR3 ;)
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
Well, yeah, a manual trans is a whole other matter then. And I agree. I prefer them due to mechanical simplicity.

Still lots of other problems. Single coil running 8 cylinders? Distributor? Typically way more vacuum tubes. And just the fact that engine block design HAS come a long way, and head gasket failures are pretty much a thing of the past. Ditto many valve train issues.

The way I see it, many of the mechanical systems have been perfected, and the risk lies with the new computerized systems. I think a lot of the anti-new car sentiment stems from people who want to stick with what they know. Which is fine. Some of the rest of us young guys never knew the old stuff. I'm only 30, and most of my cars have been fuel injected. I couldn't fix a carb or distributor system if my life depended on it. However, I have no problem with the computer systems.
 

superpowerdave

Adventurer
R_Lefebvre said:
The way I see it, many of the mechanical systems have been perfected, and the risk lies with the new computerized systems. I think a lot of the anti-new car sentiment stems from people who want to stick with what they know. Which is fine. Some of the rest of us young guys never knew the old stuff. I'm only 30, and most of my cars have been fuel injected. I couldn't fix a carb or distributor system if my life depended on it. However, I have no problem with the computer systems.

I think you're reading this wrong. I don't think there is an 'anti-new car sentiment' here at all, I think it's a matter or purpose at this point. Guys are saying the LR3 is a great truck, just not an ideal choice for an overlanding vehicle when there are other, more proven platforms out there. And most of that stems from the lack of user-serviceability in the field.

And for that matter, I think saying that the mechanical workings of a vehicle have been perfected is a bit of an overstatement. This is why car makers still offer warranties. Parts break down and need repair, simple as that.

I'm sure you are great with computers, and if you have a testbook along for the trip then you'd be just fine in an LR3, or any other predominantly computer controller vehicle for that matter. Those computer systems are proprietary though which is why they can ask twelve grand for a testbook and get it.

At the end of the day though, people who are building trucks to head off into the unknown for weeks at a time and the vehicle is their lifeline need it to perform, and when it doesn't they need to know they can fix the problem and press. This is where basic understanding of what makes vehicles run comes into play. You still need fuel, spark, and timing, regardless of how many computers there are ... it's just a lot easier to fix these things with hand tools than it is if they are controlled by a handful of computers.
 

pangaea

Adventurer
R_Lefebvre said:
Well, yeah, a manual trans is a whole other matter then. And I agree. I prefer them due to mechanical simplicity.

While I think the manual boxes do have the advantage of simplicity, the service life, especially with Rovers seems to be far shorter on the manual than the "slush box." By and large, if the ZF box goes through the initial break in period sucessfully, they're designed to work for 300k or so. Anyone got even close to that out of an R-380???? (crickets chirping).
 

kellymoe

Expedition Leader
pangaea said:
While I think the manual boxes do have the advantage of simplicity, the service life, especially with Rovers seems to be far shorter on the manual than the "slush box." By and large, if the ZF box goes through the initial break in period sucessfully, they're designed to work for 300k or so. Anyone got even close to that out of an R-380???? (crickets chirping).

Didnt the R380 have the lubrication issue with the output shaft? I remember they started selling cross drilled shafts or something. Did this help?

My LT85 is still going strong. Not as smooth at the R380 but much more robust.
 

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
Dave, I basically agree with you as it concerns the LR3. I guess we're just going around in circles, and the argument has been rehashed many times.
 

pangaea

Adventurer
kellymoe said:
Didnt the R380 have the lubrication issue with the output shaft? I remember they started selling cross drilled shafts or something. Did this help?

My LT85 is still going strong. Not as smooth at the R380 but much more robust.

Yes, they did upgrade the output shafts on the R380. Mid 95, IIRC. From what I remember, it helped to reduce the spline wear on the output shaft for the transmission, but I still think the gears, particluarly the synchros, are just a bit too fragile on the R380.

You're right though, the LT seems to be a much sturdier box if you don't mind the fact that its a bit less refined.
 

LRNAD90

Adventurer
pangaea said:
Yes, they did upgrade the output shafts on the R380. Mid 95, IIRC. From what I remember, it helped to reduce the spline wear on the output shaft for the transmission, but I still think the gears, particluarly the synchros, are just a bit too fragile on the R380.

You're right though, the LT seems to be a much sturdier box if you don't mind the fact that its a bit less refined.

I don't think that Land Rover officially fixed the problem by installing cross drilled input gears until '97 or '98. My Discovery that suffered from the issue was a '96 (those photos are not of mine, but had been posted here before by someone else, but it looked the same, maybe worse). I don't know that any stateside manual transmission Rovers got the fix from the factory (last manual Discovery's were '97 MY).

Here is the Text of the Spline Wear TSB issues by Land Rover:


"Gearbox Mainshaft Spline Wear

Issue 2

24/05/96

37/02/96/US

SUBJECT:
Gearbox Mainshaft Spline Wear

MODEL:
Discovery
Discovery
Defender 90

AFFECTED VEHICLES:
LPLJ 178205 Onwards
LJ 506525 Onwards
LD 976480 Onwards


DETAIL

Some customers may complain of clonks and backlash in the transmission system. This may be due to gearbox/mainshaft spline wear. The clonk/backlash will be most apparent in stop/go traffic under overrun conditions or when maneuvering the vehicle during parking, etc. From transfer box numbers 28D460996 F (Discovery) and 22D 461124 F (Defender) all factory built LT230 transfer boxes have a revised design of input gear, featuring lengthened splines and cross drilled oil feed holes. This modification eliminates the
requirement for an oil feed disc (bulletin H415) and eliminates input gear/mainshaft spline fretting/wear. Coincident with this change, the transfer box identification number has been changed to Suffix "F".

Information only:
The new parts supercede all old parts and should be used in ALL LT230 applications during repairs.

NOTE: Do not use in conjunction with an oil feed disc, Bulletin "H415 Mainshaft Spline Wear Prevention." If a complaint of transmission clonk/backlash is made, it is likely mainshaft spline wear has occurred. The
transfer box mainshaft input gear and gearbox mainshaft must be replaced together as a pair.

ACTION REQUIRED

If a customer complains of transmission backlash/clonk refer to the
procedure below.

PARTS INFORMATION

Mainshaft/Input Gear replacement part numbers
Manual R380
FTC5087 replaces FTC4188, ratio 1:1.214,28 teeth
(Defender and Discovery)
FTC3703 - Gearbox Mainshaft (Defender and Discovery)

ZF Automatic
FTC5087 replaces FTC4188, ratio 1:1.214, 28 teeth
(Defender and Discovery)
FTC5090 replaces FTC3981 - Coupling Shaft (Defender and Discovery)

PROCEDURE





Follow procedure outlined in Workshop Manual Section 37 "Manual Gearbox", Section 41 "Transfer Box", and Section 44 "Auto Gearbox."

For ZF Automatics: When coupled to a ZF Automatic gearbox a new coupling shaft is required with extended splines. This is a factory fix for all Discovery Automatics and LT230 transfer boxes.

NOTE: If the clonk/backlash is thought to be coming from the transfer box, remove the power take off cover and bearing housing from the rear of the transfer box to inspect the input gear. Visually inspect the transfer box input gear and the gearbox output shaft if visible wear is evident, the gearbox output shaft and the ransfer box input gear will need to be replaced as a pair.

WARRANTY:

Normal warranty policy and procedures apply.

COMP.CODE:

3L9J

SRO:

37.20.88/26 - Input gear and mainshaft (manual) renew 10.50 hr.

44.20.88/26 - Input gear and coupling shaft (automatic) 7.00 hr."


Here is the Oil Thrower 'fix' TSB as well, issued before they started using the crossdrilled input gear:


"You have the oil thrower fix if there is a yellow X painted on the back of the T-case. None of the fixes can be done with an LT77s. This is the PREVIOUS fix. Mainshaft Spline Wear Prevention

29/03/96

H415

SUBJECT:
Mainshaft Spline Wear Prevention

MODEL:
Discovery - with R380 Manual Gearboxes
Defender 90

AFFECTED VEHICLES:LJ 081991 to 172377
LJ 500000 to 504330
LD 939976 to 972378


DETAIL

To prevent occurrence of mainshaft spline wear, an oil feed disc has been introduced into the LT230 transfer gearbox which can be retro-fitted to earlier vehicles providing a customer complaint of transmission backlash/clunk is not evident This disc is a preventative measure only and will not cure existing spline wear induced "clunk" without other component changes. All transfer boxes from the above VIN numbers LJ72378, LJ 504330 and LD 972378 that are fitted with a feed disc at the factory are identified with a yellow "X" painted on the power take off cover so external confirmation of repair is visible, dealers should also apply this paint identification to identify completion of repair and to prevent this work being carried out again.

NOTE: Vehicles fitted with a LT77S manual gearbox CANNOT utilize this fix. Transfer boxes from suffix "F" will be fitted with a production solution which entails additional oilways in the transfer box input gear (detailed in Bulletin 37/02/96/US). Vehicles fitted with suffix "F" gearboxes cannot be fitted with the oil feed disc.

ACTION REQUIRED

At the earliest opportunity fit the parts listed below to all R380 vehicles, providing no customer complaint of backlash/driveline clunk is evident.

PARTS INFORMATION

FTC4993 - Oil feed disc (Qty. 1)
FTC4994 - "0" ring (Qty. 1)
STC611K - Hylosil sealant (Qty. 1)

NOTE: This fix cannot be fitted to LT77 or LT77S manual gearboxes.

PROCEDURE

See Workshop Manual for removal of the P.T.O. cover and bearing plate.

1. If during fitting of the oil feed disc, advanced spline wear is noted, both the gearbox mainshaft and the transfer box input gear should be replaced (if the replacement transfer gear has oil holes into the spline, an
oil feed disc will not be required, see Bulletin 37/02/96/US).

2. Assemble "0" ring onto disc and locate disc into bearing housing ensuring cut outs are aligned and disc ID "TOP" is at the top of the disc.

3. Rebuild referring to Workshop Manual, cleaning off all traces of old sealant.

4. Paint a yellow "X" on the power take off cover.

Note: Do not rebuild with grease - if spline lubrication is required, use only transfer box oil.

NOTE: For guidance on repairs to resolve customer complaints of transmission backlash refer to Technical Bulletin 37/02/96/US.

WARRANTY:

Normal warranty policy and procedures apply

COMP.CODE:

H415

SRO:

H415 - Fit oil feed disc 0.90 hr.

NOTE: If any additional mainshaft wear is noted replace parts and claim
through normal procedures."
 

PhyrraM

Adventurer
Not to needlessly bump an ancient thread, but I am curious to see if everyones opinions on the LR3 (and LR4) are still the same.

Many of the computer systems are much better known. Devices, like the Faultmate, are now available at much lower price points than LRs official tools. There are aftermarket coil-over kits that come with "black-boxes" to properly disable just the air-system. I'm sure there are many more "positives" now vs. 4 years ago too. Hell, the warrantee process might already have even weeded out a bunch of "Monday and Friday" cars.

Of course the counter to that is that "simpler" trucks are also better understood....just getting even older.
 

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