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Thread: Roof design examples and comment

  1. #41
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    If Mike Van Pelt asked for this thread, them I'm going to narrow my focus and assume that we're talking about a GXV truck.

    This:

    http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...n-with-the-new


    DSCF4391.JPG


    I like that it's a hard-side. If you're going to build a lifting roof from scratch, might as well go with a hard-side. Also GXV has already got the engineering done, for their Pangea model, and the overall construction is also right up GXV's alley.

    With the top down, it's still usable. Inside height with the top down is 5', which is roughly the same as a full-size conventional van with a 6" or so raised roof. Ala Roadtrek:

    2899793_f520.jpg

    So, even with the top down, it's still a very usable space. Even the head can be used as long as you don't mind sitting down to use it. The shower...probably not with the top down, unless it's a full wet bath and again, you don't mind sitting to use it.


    For stealth and security, I like that with the top down, the windows disappear. For security, what I don't like, is that with the top down, the windows disappear. If I were sleeping in a place where I'd want the top down for security, then that's probably exactly where I'd want the ability to see what's going on outside. Shouldn't be a big deal though to rig blind spot cameras. The truck almost certainly needs a backup cam anyway. Might as well just go whole hog and add a 4th cam to see what's going on in front (put it up high with a fisheye lens, and you might also be able to use it to see if you are going to make it under that low-hanging obstacle).

    With the top down, it doesn't really look like a camper, except for the hatches and that big entry door. I think those could be camouflaged to make the truck resemble a work truck. For weekending, probably not needed, but for long term, long distance use it might be a good idea.


    Crawl through...probably not. Looking at the first pic in this post, it appears that there *might* be enough space under the roof to make a crawl though without the boot interfering with the roof...but it would certainly be tight. One way around that would be a gangway/mudroom between the cab and cabin, with a drop-side stairway.

    That would also allow the door to be moved to the front, which has two main drawbacks: First, the door has to be a two-piece ala Alaskan. But that's not a big deal - in fact, it's good for ventilation by leaving the top part open, and besides Stephen Stewart recommends a dutch door anyway for security reasons. The other (possibly big deal) drawback is you lose 3' or so of "living space". You do regain part of the living space though by not having a side door, and the port side of the mudroom could be a 3' wide x 2' deep x 5' high storage/utility box, possibly with the generator and/or batteries in the bottom, though I'd rather have the batteries down between the frame rails.


    The truck *might* fit in a container. If not, then the use of container wheels would probably be enough to get the job done. If not, then the camper box in the first pic is removable. It sits on a flatbed. I like the idea of a removable camper box. It doesn't have to sit on a flatbed, but I think taking remove-ability into the initial engineering is a good idea. I particularly like the way Darrin Fink does it, which I believe he does by incorporating 2" receivers into the frame of the camper box and using standard camper jacks:

    frame-finished-and-removed.jpg

    Add some receivers in the frame pointing down, then lift the box, drive the truck out, stick wheels in the bottom receivers, drop it down on its wheels and pull the jacks out of the sides. Then use the truck to shove it into the container. Lash it down, then drive the truck in right after it, ala that 6x6 Unicat Mog.



    I think the lifting mechanism is important as well. There are a lot of different ways to do it, from Alaskan's hydraulics to the 4 electric screws jacks used in the camper in the first pic (which, using a 4 switch controller, allows the owner to tilt the roof a bit this way and that to direct rain runoff where he wants it), to a recent post by whalecharterboat (All Terrain Warriors) describing a setup with 4 pneumatic power up/down rams and equalizing valves. The (gorgeous) Bullet XV uses hydraulics, with a system of cables and pulleys (maylines) to keep everything synced:

    http://bulletxv.wordpress.com/2009/0...e-lift-system/

    Personally, if I was building my own from scratch, I'd go with a screw jack system similar to this:

    Screw-Jack-Systems.jpg

    Though, of course, it would be much less heavy duty and I'd use "traveling nut" jacks rather than "traveling screw" jacks, but you see what I mean. The driveshafts and 90 degree transmissions could be incorporated into the camper frame, the roof attached to the traveling nuts, and, it could even have a hand crank for use in a pinch. (And of course the motor doesn't have to be in the center...I'd likely stick it on the end of one leg of the "U" and delete the center transmission.)

    There are several advantages, such as the roof goes up square regardless of uneven loading, even thin light duty screw jacks can lift a lot (roof + stuff), it stays where it's put (you could even drive with the roof up if you had to), it isn't going to leak and need new seals, it doesn't require locking pins to prevent creeping and when the roof is down, it's down "and locked". [EDIT: And...it's quiet.]

    Also, it's mechanically pretty simple and bulletproof (yea, that was a pun about the maylines ).

    [EDIT AGAIN: Also, forgot to mention: Since it's a mechanically synced system, and the roof is always perfectly square to the bottom box - two-piece overlapping interior partition walls are not a problem. I.e., you can have a head with walls and a door instead of just a curtain.]




    A box like that could be mounted on a brand new Fuso FG, or on a refurbed surplus Mog (smaller Mogs, like maybe the commonly available 1300) or several other platforms.
    I think GXV could probably sell a few...especially if they could do it at 1/4 - 1/2 the price of a bigger rig.
    Last edited by dwh; 07-01-2012 at 09:36 PM. Reason: typos and touchups
    ...
    ...
    Current: 76 E-250, bubble-top, self-contained|couple of old Yamaha enduros
    Previous wheelers: 41 Willys|78 FJ40|78 Bronco|84 Bronco|74 Ramcharger|78 Ramcharger|79 D150 PowerWagon|77 D100|79 D400 dually, converted to 4WD, utility bed, 10' Lance|75 Westy|69 Scout, RHD|bunch of others|bunch of bikes|couple of boats|couple of motorhomes|blah blah|so what|not my idea|just doin' what I'm told|wank wank|this space for rent|candy is dandy|but liquor is quicker

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    109
    I saw one homebrew up/down system consisting of a bicycle chain running about the perimeter of the camper turning the 4 jackscrews.

    Quite simple and all,
    The chain was fitted into a chase that went along the baseboards and across the door threshold, the drive motor was located in a rear corner adjacent to one of the jackscrews. It was not built with any limit switches, It was dependant of the operator to realise when the motor was lugged to switch it off.

    I sort of like it over hydros and it eliminated the need for a 4 port flow divider what are real expensive...

  3. #43
    Alright...interesting post. I like the way you have exemplify each and every thing and part. I would like to know which part do you want to prefer??? and why??? Which is more beneficial among all???

  4. #44
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    I did a lot of thinking about roof options, and ended up with a full height solid roof, with the corners cut off.

    I looked at the pros and cons of each of the three major roof types:

    Pop up - soft sides
    .( either Earthcruiser style or tilting style)
    Good
    Lower profile - may fit in a container ( touch and go with a Unimog, especially with a high roof or roof rack) Less wind resistance, better clearance under bridges.
    Bad
    Soft sided/pop up campers may be fine for weekend or a few weeks, but when it comes to months and all sort of weather conditions, noise and heat insulation. Probably more weight required for the frame of the truck as there is no cross bracing so will need a stronger structure. Raising and lowering would be a bit of a pain each stop unless it was very easy, then the added complication of jacks etc.

    Pop up - hard sides ( Alaskan or similar)

    Good
    Same as the soft sided pop up, but with extra noise and sound insulation, better security if the top drops down over the windows.

    Bad
    Complicated, fairly heavy, a real problem if it gets stuck.

    Full height

    Good - simple, easy to build, best structural integrity, most convenient for camping - no set-up required. Can be engineered to take occupants in the back. Can have support more "stuff" and other permanent things on the roof if required.

    Bad - height - must be under 3.5m for the low bridges in Eastern Europe, extra wind resistance, overhangs and trees could be a problem, won't fit in a container unless the back is taken off,


    Full height with chamfered sides.


    Good - still relatively simple, easy to build, even better structural integrity, most convenient for camping - no set-up required. Can be engineered to take occupants in the back. Can have still have lots of "stuff" and other permanent things on the roof if required. Chamfers lower the risk of branches hitting the edges - Unimog ambulances and other military vehicles seem to always have this feature, visually not so imposing when standing next to it.

    Bad - As per the full height camper, must be under 3.5m for the low bridges in Eastern Europe, extra wind resistance, overhangs and trees could still be a problem, won't fit in a container unless the back is taken off, adds some complication to the frame, less interior volume and high level storage.


    In the end, all thing consider this is what we went with - full height with chamfered corners.



    DSC04004.jpg

    DSC04515.JPG

    DSC04035.jpg

    DSC04692.JPG
    Iain
    Brisbane, Australia
    Unimog U1250
    Unimog Central

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattressstx View Post
    Alright...interesting post. I like the way you have exemplify each and every thing and part. I would like to know which part do you want to prefer??? and why??? Which is more beneficial among all???
    Eh? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? There's no one else here, you must be talkin' to me!

    Taxi1.jpg




    I would say the most important thing to me is the ability to use the camper, even with the top down.

    If you pull over for a quick stop, which happens a lot, it would be nice to just hop in the back without having to deploy the roof. Grab a cup of coffee, a snack, use the head and off you go, back on the road.

    Also, if you need to sleep in a non-secure area, you can leave the top down for both stealth and security, and still use the camper and get some sleep.
    Last edited by dwh; 08-09-2012 at 07:09 AM.
    ...
    ...
    Current: 76 E-250, bubble-top, self-contained|couple of old Yamaha enduros
    Previous wheelers: 41 Willys|78 FJ40|78 Bronco|84 Bronco|74 Ramcharger|78 Ramcharger|79 D150 PowerWagon|77 D100|79 D400 dually, converted to 4WD, utility bed, 10' Lance|75 Westy|69 Scout, RHD|bunch of others|bunch of bikes|couple of boats|couple of motorhomes|blah blah|so what|not my idea|just doin' what I'm told|wank wank|this space for rent|candy is dandy|but liquor is quicker

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iain_U1250 View Post
    I did a lot of thinking about roof options, and ended up with a full height solid roof, with the corners cut off...

    ...Full height with chamfered sides.

    Good - still relatively simple, easy to build, even better structural integrity, most convenient for camping - no set-up required. Can be engineered to take occupants in the back. Can have still have lots of "stuff" and other permanent things on the roof if required. Chamfers lower the risk of branches hitting the edges - Unimog ambulances and other military vehicles seem to always have this feature, visually not so imposing when standing next to it.
    Another "good" for the chamfer design is overall width when off-camber:

    72737d1236030765-toyota-pickup-offcamber-pic-pictures-truck-023.jpg
    Last edited by dwh; 08-09-2012 at 07:13 AM.
    ...
    ...
    Current: 76 E-250, bubble-top, self-contained|couple of old Yamaha enduros
    Previous wheelers: 41 Willys|78 FJ40|78 Bronco|84 Bronco|74 Ramcharger|78 Ramcharger|79 D150 PowerWagon|77 D100|79 D400 dually, converted to 4WD, utility bed, 10' Lance|75 Westy|69 Scout, RHD|bunch of others|bunch of bikes|couple of boats|couple of motorhomes|blah blah|so what|not my idea|just doin' what I'm told|wank wank|this space for rent|candy is dandy|but liquor is quicker

  7. #47
    Join Date
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    UK
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    Nice thread

    Since, for example, an Alaskan will be tucked up and protected behind the cab, and its design means it can't really be made to be impact proof from branches etc, I wonder if a hard side pop-top will generally be lighter than a similarly sized hard sider?

    I know there are a lot of variables, but if I was looking at doing what Iain is doing I know it will be in harms way and would want it to be fairly tree proof. If an Alaskan ended up entirely behind the cab it wouldn't need to be as tough, so could be lighter?

    With a Mog you could also have the bed mounted on an X-frame, so the mechanism to allow for a 3-way tipper would make the back easy to forklift off and on for sliding in a container. Even without that, the Mog flatbed mount is only ten bolts I think, realignment to refit might be a bit tricky but you wouldn't be doing it that often! Then any Mog as long as it doesn't have a high roof cab will (I'm told!) fit in a hi-cube container (wheels off, maybe front mud guards and wheel studs too, for the bigger ones).

    I'm not convinced that a soft sided camper is any better than a tent! And since its above the vehicle and sitting up in the wind surely its worse?!?

    Jason

    U1700 camper called Moglet

  8. #48
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    Seattle
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    Some interesting designs of folding trailers (folding caravans) from Europe:

    Gobur caravan and Pennine caravan are both popup roof designs with four hard sides
    see trade show video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYbpT...eature=related
    http://www.goburcaravans.co.uk/carou...how-they-work/

    Riva folding caravan has soft sides but is different because of the soft side material. They advertise this material has insulation quality but more important can be stored wet indefinitely until ready to go camping again.
    youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gguRi...eature=related
    home page http://www.rivadandysales.co.uk/

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