Good expedition platform for a rookie?

SGV

Adventurer
Hi everyone, I have been lurking around this forum, reading posts and build threads. One of my favorites is the one about building an expedition vehicle for under $15k.
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2200&highlight=blazer

A brief about me. I am in the middle of a career change and pretty soon I will actually have the time to go on week long expeditions. My wife and I enjoy the outdoors: hiking, kayaking, etc, and now want to get into camping and such since we will have time. I used to own a business and had zero time for vacations, but now with the economy and all... Lets just say that I will have the time. I have owned in the past a YJ, XJ, and loved them both. I currently own an '06 Suzuki Grand Vitara which also is a nice car. When I bought it I made all the stupid mistakes that a first time new car buyer makes, including getting 4wd w/out low range. I have had it off road before on 2.5ish log roads (my guesstimate). It does fine, but I really want to get into a vehicle that I can expeditionize (is that a word?)

I was wondering if anyone had an good suggestions on a truck that a newbie could handle i.e. good reliability, simple enough to work on if something breaks, room for two people, two kayaks, and camping gear for a week. It would have to be a "build as I go" as in it should be adequate in stock form. I will add lockers, small lift, bigger tires and so forth as the funds and time arrive.

I have noticed a lot of 90's era vehicles for the members. Is this a good time period to look for? I am mostly concerned about reliabilityin a decade old vehicle. My '97 Cherokee was great, but things kept breaking until I got sick of it and wanted new. I have read some build threads about Cherokee's and they get me all excited all over again, but my reservations are uni-body and reliability. I understand the 4.0 is bulletproof, but I have read about all sorts of other issues with the brand. (Not trying to bash Jeep, I would get another in a heartbeat but I am exploring options for vehicles I know nothing about.)

This is getting long, so I will just list a couple vehicles that peek my interest and a question about them. I would appreciate any ideas for a truck that I don't mention and would love to have any misconceptions or concerns corrected by those in the know. Here they are in no particular order:

Isuzu Trooper: 3.5 or 3.2? I think these are my favorite, but I am limited in my knowledge about them so I don't want to just run out and buy one.
3rd gen 4Runner: No concerns. Would anyone recommend another generation?
1st gen Tacoma: Ditto but very expensive for the years.
Land Cruiser: God things things look awesome. I drool every time I see one. Are they worth close to 10K for a mid-nineties specimen? How reliable are the ones from the 1980's (the FJ60's)?
Discovery: I understand I would want a 1st gen. Are they really not very reliable or will they break the bank in parts costs? As far as appearance goes these are tied for first with the Land Cruiser for me.
Suzuki Sidekick/Vitara/Chevy Tracker: Rugged little fuel misers, but too little?
Jeep Cherokee/Grand Cherokee: Same as from paragraph. Great aftermarket support. For the XJ, low mpg for its body weight. For the Grand, electrical issues??
Mitsubishi Montero I think they look great. Sport or regular? I have read the aftermarket is kind of dry. Appearance wise I think they look great. Also, the Dodge Raider I like, but I have not heard anything good about it.
Nissan Xterra I know nothing about them except the Xterra guys seem to prefer the 1st gen.

I will leave it with these. There are some domestic vehicles I would be interested in, but I am concerned about size. I don't want anything that is huge although I do like that Tahoe that someone here has built as well as the two door ones from the mid 90's.

Most of my off roading would be in New England although the wife would like to head to the Grand Canyon in a year or two. It looks like you southwest guys have a lot of fun.
 

SGV

Adventurer
How did I know that the 4Runner would be suggested first? I have been lurking over at http://www.toyota-4runner.org/ for a while as well. They seem great. I forgot one general question. Does it really matter if I get a manual or automatic? I lean towards manual but I am not picky unless there is a definite advantage of one over the other.
 

jeff@work

Adventurer
I've noticed a lot of people selling some nicely outfitted rigs lately, whether it be the economy or they're just moving on to new projects. If you're looking at upgrading suspension, tires, lockers etc, you could really save yourself some money in buying a vehicle that already has those mods. Plus then you'd have the vehicle outfitted from the get go instead of gradually adding things over time.

The only vehicle in your list i have personal experience with is an 02 Trooper which i really liked, however with Isuzu pulling out of the US market i'd be leery of buying one. Plus you have to be really careful with the oil burning issue on some of them, my 02 did not have that problem though.
 

offroad_nomad

Adventurer
. . . and you may want to look for 3rd Gens up to 2000 (I believe that was the last year it was offered) which had the rear E-Locker as an option too. I wish my '01 had one.

expeditionswest said:
Third-gen 4Runner... That will make for a fantastic and reliable first overlander
 

Momrocks

Adventurer
I second jeff@work, lots of well developed rigs showing up for sale right now. Add it all up and that probably is the best move finantially if you want a dedicated rig. That said...'run whatcha brung' is always a good way to go when you are getting started. Built rigs often bring their own disadvantages through compromises. Take a realistic view of how you will use the rig and decide whether or not the Suzuki you already own will fit the bill. Use it for a couple of weekenders and evaluate where your needs are or are not met. We have all seen and heard stories of world travelers overlanding in bone stock VW vans and other unlikely platforms. I take the side that overlanding and meaningful travel is way more about the travelers attitude than the mode of transport. I have seen well driven box stock rigs in the most hellish places. There is no one right answer to this question, all of our factors and circumstances are different and so there are a wide variety of solutions. I am confident you will arrive at what's best for you and look forward to following your journey.
 

SGV

Adventurer
jeff@work said:
I've noticed a lot of people selling some nicely outfitted rigs lately, whether it be the economy or they're just moving on to new projects. If you're looking at upgrading suspension, tires, lockers etc, you could really save yourself some money in buying a vehicle that already has those mods. Plus then you'd have the vehicle outfitted from the get go instead of gradually adding things over time.

The only vehicle in your list i have personal experience with is an 02 Trooper which i really liked, however with Isuzu pulling out of the US market i'd be leery of buying one. Plus you have to be really careful with the oil burning issue on some of them, my 02 did not have that problem though.

I have heard to stay away from modded vehicles. I used to ride sport bikes, and the trend was to stay away unless it was stock. I would be worried about the amount of wear and tear on a rig as opposed to picking up one from a soccer mom. I will not rule it out, though. Are these worries justified?
 

Travelmore

Adventurer
I haven't had any electrical issues with my 03 Grand Cherokee. I am just past 100k miles. Its my wife's daily driver and I have not done the mods to it... yet. There is definitely a lot available for them though. And I have wheeled it stock. One thing to look for in them is I prefer the 4.0 with the Selec-Trac which allows you to choose full or part time 4wd in addition to 4 lo.
 

OTR

Adventurer
I know it's a little bit more money. But if Taco Doc's truck is still availiable that would be the way to go. The truck is a deal considering all that he has done to it.
 

Sgt Grunt

Adventurer
80 series Cruisers are a very moderate platform... Out of the box they are great. I could ramble about all of the "Pros"... However, you can expect at least $2000 right off the get go to "Baseline" the truck to ensure it will get you to and from your destination... Mileage will affect the $2k obviously.
 

SGV

Adventurer
Travelmore said:
I haven't had any electrical issues with my 03 Grand Cherokee. I am just past 100k miles. Its my wife's daily driver and I have not done the mods to it... yet. There is definitely a lot available for them though. And I have wheeled it stock. One thing to look for in them is I prefer the 4.0 with the Selec-Trac which allows you to choose full or part time 4wd in addition to 4 lo.

I like the looks of those and the 4.0 would be my preferred engine. I have driven the 3.7 in a Liberty and I was impressed, but I have not heard one thing about that engine.

OTR said:
I know it's a little bit more money. But if Taco Doc's truck is still availiable that would be the way to go. The truck is a deal considering all that he has done to it.

Unfortunately, that is out of my price range. I have read some of his thread and it looks awesome. I am hoping to actually be able to do something in the spring. Right now I am still researching. I get weird like that. I will research for months, then up an buy something out of the blue. That is how I ended up in the GV. I was also looking at a Kia Sorento which I liked, but mpg made up my mind. I would keep it, but because of business related reasons I just might have to get rid of it.
 

SGV

Adventurer
Sgt Grunt said:
80 series Cruisers are a very moderate platform... Out of the box they are great. I could ramble about all of the "Pros"... However, you can expect at least $2000 right off the get go to "Baseline" the truck to ensure it will get you to and from your destination... Mileage will affect the $2k obviously.

$2000? Really? Hmmm.

Edit:

I saw this: http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/886965907.html

Then remembered something and looked up this:http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=1991&make=Toyota&model=Land%20Cruiser&trimid=-1
1991 Toyota Land Cruiser
Fuel Economy
(more)
:eek: Egads!?!
City (mpg) 12
Highway (mpg) 14
 
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jeff@work

Adventurer
SGV said:
I have heard to stay away from modded vehicles. I used to ride sport bikes, and the trend was to stay away unless it was stock. I would be worried about the amount of wear and tear on a rig as opposed to picking up one from a soccer mom. I will not rule it out, though. Are these worries justified?

It really just depends on the vehicle and owner. A lot of people mod out their vehicles and then never even take them off road. I've also found that a lot of the enthusiasts that are into working on and fixing up their vehicles are fanatical about them and do an excellent job of taking care of them and keeping all the maintenance up to date.

I know plenty of people that have suv's that never touch the dirt, aka soccer mom suvs, that don't pay attention to when oil changes, transmission fluid changes, etc should be done. Not to mention they don't even know how to put the vehicle in 4wd and a lot of manufacturers recommend doing that at least once a month.

So basically I think it comes down to the vehicle and owner, there's definitely some thrashed vehicles out there but there's also some very nicely modded ones that are in excellent condition. Just keep your eyes open for the nice ones and make sure you thoroughly go over and/or have the vehicle inspected before you buy it whether is be stock or modified.
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
If you want a vehicle that you can get for a budget, that is generally pretty reliable and has decent aftermarket support, you might think about a 98+ Ford Ranger. They tend to be "under the radar" vehicles because people don't think about them too much but there are an absolute ton of them out there and they're very reasonably priced (on the order of 2/3 or 3/4 of the price of an equivalent Tacoma, for example.) The 3.0l engine is dead reliable. My only gripe with them is that the 4x4 versions have the electric transfer case shifter which can sometimes fail to function but other than that I can't really think of any down side. I owned a 2wd Ranger for 4 years and never had a lick of trouble with it. I found its size to be excellent for all sorts of travel and it was the best "road trip" vehicle I've ever owned (much more comfortable to drive on the highway than my current Tacoma, in fact.)

I'm curious about something you wrote above, though:

I currently own an '06 Suzuki Grand Vitara which also is a nice car. When I bought it I made all the stupid mistakes that a first time new car buyer makes, including getting 4wd w/out low range.

Um, do you have a Grand Vitara or an XL-7? We've got an '06 GV and it does indeed have a low range with full time 4x4. I know the XL-7 has AWD without low range, but was it an option on the GV as well? I was under the impression that all of the 4x4 GVs were Full time 4wd with low range and that all of the 4x4 XL-7s were AWD. Was this not the case?
 

SGV

Adventurer
I have read that about the 3.0. Thanks for the suggestion.

Martinjmpr said:
I'm curious about something you wrote above, though:



Um, do you have a Grand Vitara or an XL-7? We've got an '06 GV and it does indeed have a low range with full time 4x4. I know the XL-7 has AWD without low range, but was it an option on the GV as well? I was under the impression that all of the 4x4 GVs were Full time 4wd with low range and that all of the 4x4 XL-7s were AWD. Was this not the case?

In 2006 the GV was offered with the choice of 2wd, full-time 4wd, and 4wd with low range and a center differential lock. It has a transfer case with apparently everything but a few items that will cost about $2k to give it the low range and the locker. At the time it didn't even occur to me that it might not have low range. I had never needed it before when driving my Jeeps, so I didn't look for it. On the Suzuki forum http://www.suzuki-forums.com/ several others had made the same mistake as me. Although this thing has been excellent for the 40k miles I have put on it, this is something that I was not happy about. I think starting in 2007 they stopped the no low range nonsense.

Now that you mention it, I am also interested in the 1st gen XL-7 is also one of my "potentials." I don't think there is much aftermarket support for it other than Rocky Road.
 

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