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haven

Expedition Leader
south of the border with a new diesel

It looks like the new diesel exhaust emissions control systems rely on two or even three catalytic converters, plus a particulate trap. The cats will be ruined if the vehicle is run on standard diesel fuel with high sulphur content.

Canada and USA are using the same schedule to introduce ultra-low-sulphur diesel. But how can we drive a new diesel to Mexico and points south?

Mexican authorities say that, in 2007, they plan to make ultra-low-sulphur diesel fuel available at stations that are within a few hundred miles of the US-Mexico border. Turistas and trucks hauling NAFTA goods should be able to get low sulphur fuel. Be sure to look for the sticker indicating the diesel fuel is ultra-low sulphur.

This assumes that the fuel truck drivers put the right fuel in the right tank at the service station. And that the underground tank has been properly cleaned of old diesel fuel before it's used for the new fuel.

But when you travel farther south, the diesel fuel is likely to be the high-sulphur variety for years to come. I doubt that low-sulphur diesel will be available in Central and South America for a decade or more if ever.

So what's a new diesel owner to do? I guess you have to remove the exhaust cats before traveling to Mexico. Or plan to replace your ruined emissions control system when you return.

Chip Haven
 

asteffes

Explorer
Is there any sort of sulphur-be-gone addititive one could add to high-sulphur diesel to make it, well, less sulphury?
 

asteffes

Explorer
haven said:
So much of light duty diesel sales is marketing baloney that strokes the male ego (or other parts of the male anatomy). I see dozens of Powerstroke and Cummins powered pickups driving around every day with one occupant and nothing in the bed. The medium trucks doing real work are the cab-forward 4 and 6 cylinder Isuzu and Mitsubishi diesels.

Chip Haven

Well, do remember that Ford and GM made it very attractive for buyers to choose their big trucks with interest-free financing and large cash incentives. During that time I noticed a marked increase in SuperDuties and Duramaxes everywhere I went, especially, it seems, in Colorado. $35k for a powerful truck that can haul the family, too, and gets decent mileage isn't too bad of a deal.
 

asteffes

Explorer
Jonathan Hanson said:
Two thousand NINE?

Talk about missing the bus. C'mon, they can get one here sooner than that, can't they? At least in the Tundra. And what would it take to modify Toyota's existing, superb three-liter four-cylinder to run on our crappy high-sulphur diesel for the Tacoma?

I think it has a lot to do with branding and wanting to be very careful about how they present a Toyota diesel option. The public associates Toyota with reliable, clean, nearly-flawless vehicles, while diesels still have a bit of their dirty image to shed in America. I think Toyota wants to be sure their diesels are successful (name the last Toyota vehicle that *wasn't* successful?) by waiting until the American public is truly ready for an everyday diesel.
 

Scott Brady

Founder
From the Jan/Feb Truck Trend

Hino made Turbo Diesel in the new Tundra in the next two years from a possible new plant in the US.
 

calamaridog

Expedition Leader
Big Diesel News from GM

Big Diesel News from GM

Time to stop H2 bashing!

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/15/gm-announces-clean-diesel-v8-for-pickups-and-the-hummer-h2/

text:

GM announces new 4.5L V8 Duramax diesel for half-ton trucks and HUMMER H2
Posted Jun 15th 2007 3:49PM by John Neff


Mark your calendars, because we're calling today a watershed moment for the advancement of diesel's acceptance in the U.S. General Motors has just announced a new 4.5L V8 Duramax turbo-diesel powerplant it plans to use in the Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra half-ton pickups, as well as the HUMMER H2. The new oil burner is expected to produce at least 310 horsepower and 520 ft-lbs. of torque. It features dual-overhead cams, four valves per cylinder, a variable-vane turbocharger and aluminum cylinder heads with integrated manifolding that helps keep the overall package small enough to fit in the same space as the automaker's small-block gas V8s.

That's right, just imagine the possibilities. Wherever GM uses a small-block V8 gas engine, it could potentially use the 4.5L V8 Duramax diesel. In a few years we could be driving diesel Impalas, diesel Camaros, maybe even a diesel Corvette! To quote GM's press release, the engine's small size gives it "the flexibility to introduce this engine in a wide variety of vehicle applications should there be future market demand." Indeed.

GM estimates that the engine will improve fuel efficiency by 25%, reduce CO2 emissions by 13% and decrease particulate and NOx emissions by at least 90% in its GMT900 pickups and the HUMMER H2. Whoever said the HUMMER H2 was on its way out will likely be proven incorrect after this engine debuts. Scheduled to be built at the GM Tonawanda engine plant outside Buffalo, NY, the 4.5L V8 Duramax diesel will be 50-state emissions compliant and meet 2010 diesel emissions standards, as well. GM claims its new diesel will also have NVH (Noise, Vibration and Harshness) levels approaching those of today's current gas V8s, though we'll have to wait and see if that wish comes true. That wait should end in a couple of years, as the automaker states the engine will be available in Silverado, Sierra and H2 models built after 2009.

UPDATE: Pickuptruck.com's Mike Levine has learned from GM that despite sharing its name with the older 6.6L Duramax diesel that was developed in partnership with Isuzu, the new 4.5L Duramax was developed completely in-house by GM.

Check out GM's full press release after the jump for more details.

[Source: GM]

PRESS RELEASE:

GM Plans First Light Duty V-8 Clean Diesel For North America

High-efficiency V-8 scheduled for pickup trucks under 8,600 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight and HUMMER H2
Low emissions, high performance and excellent fuel economy
Expected to deliver class-leading torque, power and refinement
Manufactured at the GM Powertrain Tonawanda engine plant
TONAWANDA, N.Y. – General Motors Corp. will introduce a new, state-of-the-art 4.5L V-8 Duramax turbo-diesel that improves engine fuel efficiency by 25 percent, reduces CO2 emissions by 13 percent and cuts particulates and NOx emissions by at least 90 percent for North American light duty trucks and the HUMMER H2 built after 2009.

The premium V-8 diesel is expected to deliver class-leading torque, power and refinement while maintaining a significant fuel efficiency advantage over comparable-output gasoline engines.

The new dual-overhead cam, four-valve V-8 diesel engine will fit within the same space of a small-block V-8 gasoline engine. This compact size is made possible by using integral cylinder head exhaust manifolds, integral cam cover intake manifolds and a narrow block.

"This new GM light duty diesel is expected to become a favorite among customers who require excellent towing ability and fuel efficiency," said Tom Stephens, group vice president, GM Global Powertrain and Quality. "It will meet the stringent 2010 emissions standards, and it will be compliant in all 50 states, making it one of the cleanest diesel vehicles ever produced."

Environmental benefits of the new engine include a 13-percent reduction in CO2 versus gasoline engines, and at least a 90-percent reduction in particulates and NOx compared to diesel vehicles today. This will be GM's first engine to use a selective catalytic reduction NOx aftertreatment system with a diesel particulate filter to help achieve the Tier 2 Bin 5 and LEV 2 emissions standards.

Technical highlights of the engine include aluminum cylinder heads with integrated manifolding; a variable-vane turbocharger with intercooling; a Compacted Graphite Iron (CGI) block for a stronger and lighter engine base (compared to lower-strength aluminum or heavier grey cast iron); and fracture-split main bearing caps and connecting rods for a precise fit. An electronically controlled, ultra-high-pressure, common-rail fuel system is used, which has the ability to inject fuel five times per combustion event to control noise and emissions.

"This new V-8 is not only a clean diesel meeting the toughest emissions requirements in North America, it also delivers an effortless performance feel because of its high torque across the speed range," said Charlie Freese, executive director of GM Powertrain Diesel Engineering. "It is also significantly quieter than other diesels on the road today, with noise and vibration performance approaching gasoline V-8 levels."

Freese said the new V-8's compact size enables it to fit in the envelope of a gasoline small-block engine, which provides GM the flexibility to introduce this engine in a wide variety of vehicle applications should there be future market demand.

The premium V-8 diesel engine is expected to deliver class-leading refinement, horsepower and torque and fulfill multiple vehicle applications with ratings in excess of 310 horsepower and 520 lb-ft of torque.

GM (Opel, Saab, Vauxhall and GMDAT ) currently offers 17 diesel engine variants in 45 vehicle lines around the world. GM sells more than one million diesel engines annually, with products that offer a range of choices from the 1.3L four-cylinder diesel engine sold in the Opel Agila and Corsa, up to the 6.6L V-8 Duramax diesel sold in full-size vans, heavy duty pickups and medium duty trucks in the U.S.

GM first introduced the Duramax diesel 6.6L V-8 in the U.S. in the 2001 model year and since then, customer enthusiasm for this heavy duty diesel has been outstanding. In fact, GM's heavy duty pickup truck market share has jumped nearly tenfold in the six years that Duramax engines have been offered.

General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM), the world's largest automaker, has been the annual global industry sales leader for 76 years. Founded in 1908, GM today employs about 280,000 people around the world. With global headquarters in Detroit, GM manufactures its cars and trucks in 33 countries. In 2006, nearly 9.1 million GM cars and trucks were sold globally under the following brands: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, GM Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall. GM's OnStar subsidiary is the industry leader in vehicle safety, security and information services. More information on GM can be found at www.gm.com.
 

haven

Expedition Leader
forget the H2, put diesel in H3

Since the new diesel matches the form factor of the small block gas V8, I think it will fit in the H3. The H3 is about the same size as a 4Runner. It works better off-road than the H2.

Chip Haven
 

Nullifier

Expedition Leader
well i can tell you after having several low quality gm diesel engines before I will not be geting any diesel that gm develops til they have been out and proven.

I would find it hard to believe that isuzu would allow gm to call that new mill a duramax. I doubt they want it affiliated with the quality that they produce. Whats really seem crazy is that it is yet another V-8 platform. My quess is they plan on doing away witht he isuzu motor all together and that the new one will find it's way into all the full size trucks. I fthe plan was truely to diversify the diesel line up they would have gone for a 6 cyl that could be developed into a 4cyl.

Glad to here that more diesel options are coming but it doesn't really look like they have a good viable plan. Duplicating what you already have is sensless buisness. Especially when it has the M.O. of the company for decades and they are in major trouble. Guess they still have not learned how to plan properly. It's easy to cast stones being an outsider but I still can't believe they do not think more sensibly.
 

calamaridog

Expedition Leader
haven said:
Since the new diesel matches the form factor of the small block gas V8, I think it will fit in the H3. The H3 is about the same size as a 4Runner. It works better off-road than the H2.

Chip Haven

I would buy that:)
 

haven

Expedition Leader
V8 vs V6

I think GM's decision to build a smaller displacement V8 diesel was driven by marketing concerns more than performance advantages. They didn't want people thinking, why should I buy a V6 from GM when Ford has a V8 for the same price? So we're stuck with the extra weight and complexity of a V8 design when a V6 would do.

It's possible that GM plans to introduce a V6 version at a later date by simply lopping off two cylinders from the V8 design.

It's likely an inline 4 cylinder design of 5 liters, like Isuzu and Mitsubishi use in their smaller trucks, has too much harshness for passenger car use. Toyota's 3 liter four cylinder D-4D diesel engine, as sold in Asian markets, is very refined in passenger car use.

Chip Haven
 

slomatt

Adventurer
Here are some recent (this week) responses to emails I sent to Jeep, Nissan, and Toyota asking about diesels. Nothing that gives me much hope for diesel SUVs in the US market any time soon.

Toyota
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We apologize; we do not currently have any announced plans to introduce a
diesel-powered vehicle in the United States. We are, however, aware of consumer
interest in this type of vehicle .
Toyota is committed to hybrid technology. Though diesel powered engines do deliver
comparable MPG ratings to hybrid vehicles, they do no bolster the environmental
benefit that gasoline-electric hybrids do.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Nissan
-----------------------------------------------------------------
According to our resources, Nissan has no plans of introducing a diesel SUV for the 2008 model year vehicles. We do not have information on future model year vehicles. Nissan has no plans of selling the Nissan Patrol in the United States for the 2008 model year line up.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Jeep
-----------------------------------------------------------------
We are pleased to read about your interest in the 2007 Jeep Wrangler
Unlimited. At this time, DaimlerChrysler has not released any official
information regarding the production of this vehicle with a diesel
engine option available for sale in the United States in the near
future. However, with constantly shifting market trends I would hesitate
to discount the possibility of new products on the horizon, specifically
designed to suit your needs. Please feel free to check back with us and
your local dealership periodically for future updates.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Of the three it sounds like Jeep has the most potential. If they came out with a diesel wrangler rubicon unlimited I would be extremily interested.

- Matt
 
Last edited:

Daniel

New member
haven said:
I doubt that low-sulphur diesel will be available in Central and South America for a decade or more if ever.

Just about all south american petroleum is heavy crude, which has high sulphur content. I'll leave to the petroleum geologists to expand on this. It's possible to refine it to a low sulphur content, but it's much more costly to do so. We already pay USD3.50/gallon here.

Brazil's best diesels here have 500 ppm, but in rural areas (red diesel) it's around 2000 ppm. In really remote areas they may even have 3500 ppm, which was the norm in the recent past.

By comparison, (city) diesel in Chile has 50ppm and in California and the EU has 10 ppm of sulphur. Mexico has 300ppm.

To add insult to injury (or is it really the other way around?), cetane numbers (combustion quality) seem to be inversely proportional to sulphur content. It's officially 42 here as compared to 50 to 54 in the US.
 

Scott Brady

Founder
slomatt said:
Nissan
-----------------------------------------------------------------
According to our resources, Nissan has no plans of introducing a diesel SUV for the 2008 model year vehicles. We do not have information on future model year vehicles. Nissan has no plans of selling the Nissan Patrol in the United States for the 2008 model year line up.

Diesel Nissans are coming and I have that news on very good authority ;)

Currently testing in the Titan and Frontier (V6 CRD)
 

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