School me: 200 vs 300 tdi

[mountainpete]

For those who have owned both, which do you prefer? Which makes a better expedition platform? Which is more reliable?

They have almost identical HP, but I believe the 300 had considerably more torque. Different belts, 300 is smoother, 200 and early 300 have no electronics, 300 has a better oil pump...

Looking to get schooled here

Pete

[michaels]

it seems the 200TDI is prefered for zero electronics, but the 300TDi is renowned for the torque, just as you said, but has electronics to control it.

[01001010]

If I recall correctly, don't the 200s have a belt to power the valve-train while the 300s use a chain?

[revor]

If I recall correctly, don't the 200s have a belt to power the valve-train while the 300s use a chain?

Vice versa

No Electronics on my 300. On Later Disco's there was EGR and some crazy fly by wire setup, it's easily removed and the engine then operates as a "normal" 300.

[gjackson]

The 200 is a pretty old engine. It will bolt into a series truck with an LT77, but if put into a Defender will require a very long fan shroud at the front (factory part). 200s in good condition are getting harder and harder to find. The 300 has more torque, is easier to find in low mileage examples and is very sensitive to heat. Both have belts for the valve train, but gear drives are available for both and have been blamed for many blown engines. There is a lot of info out there about the 200 having a timing chain rather than a belt, but that isn't true, so you get no valve train advantage with the 200. The 300 will bolt direct to an R380 or a ZF for trans options.

The 200 gives 111hp at 4000rpm and 146 lbft at 1800rpm.
The 300 gives 113hp at 4000rpm and 195lbft at 1800rpm.

cheers

[Yorker]

I thought from the 2.5 diesel on all the Land Rover 4 cyl diesels used timing belts, and that the 2.25 was the last one with a timing chain.

[transientmechanic]

Both engines have essentially the same power potential- the difference in extra torque from the 300 comes from small changes in the injection pump, turbo, etc.

The big difference is an overall reduction in valvetrain noise on the 300. Land Rover went to great lengths to ensure that the only noise eminating from the 300 was bottom end. It sounds much more solid and less clattery. This does not relate to performance though, its just a NVH thing.

Personally I like the 200s... I have more experience with them. Both are bulletproof once reduced to the minimum of electrics. As pointed out, though, 200 stuff is getting hard to find.

The difference in the fan shrouds is due to the length of the bellhousing and the placement of the engine. The 200 has a very short bellhousing and the back of the motor is close to the firewall. The 300 has a very long bellhousing which places the front of the motor in essentially the same location as the front of a V8. If you want to split hairs, the 200 setup offers better weight distribution.

You can't go wrong with either if you know what to expect from a small displacement diesel. I know a lot of people who are disappointed from the "bottom end" performance of the Tdi's. Because they are small displacement, they rely heavily on boost to make the power they make. Once into boost and into their powerband, they pull like a freight train (especially after the right mods). But, idling in 1st gear off road, its still a 2.5L four cylinder. Just because its a Tdi does not mean it will idle over stuff like a Cummins 5.9. There just isnt the rotating mass and displacement.

Food for thought... Let me know if you have any other questions. Between my own first hand knowledge and the knowledge of those around me (whom I can point you towards for really technical questions) I should be able to help you out!

[TeriAnn]

Or to put it into another perspective:

200tdi -> LT77 or LT77S -> LT230 -> 3.54:1 R&P
200tdi -> Series gearbox -> Series transfercase -> 4.7:1 R&P

300tdi -> R380 ->LT230 -> 3.54 R&P

The 200tdi has the same bell housing bolt pattern as the Series 4 cylinder engines whereas the 300tdi engine shares a bolt pattern with the GM/Rover aluminum V8.

The 200tdi has a Defender variation and a Discovery variation with different manifolds. The Discovery variation puts the turbo low creating interference issues with Series frame and LHD steering. The Defender version usually sells for a premium price because Series owners in the UK snatch good condition ones up.

200tdi cylinder heads, intake and exhaust manifolds are NLA.

[EricWS]

Or to put it into another perspective:

200tdi -> LT77 or LT77S -> LT230 -> 3.54:1 R&P
200tdi -> Series gearbox -> Series transfercase -> 4.7:1 R&P

300tdi -> R380 ->LT230 -> 3.54 R&P

The 200tdi has the same bell housing bolt pattern as the Series 4 cylinder engines whereas the 300tdi engine shares a bolt pattern with the GM/Rover aluminum V8.

The 200tdi has a Defender variation and a Discovery variation with different manifolds. The Discovery variation puts the turbo low creating interference issues with Series frame and LHD steering. The Defender version usually sells for a premium price because Series owners in the UK snatch good condition ones up.

200tdi cylinder heads, intake and exhaust manifolds are NLA.

I really was sweet on a 200tdi conversion. Not so much these days. I wonder what other parts will prove to be problematic to find in the years to come.

[transientmechanic]

Sadly that is going to be the case with all of these old engines. Somebody will step up and start making parts eventually, but it will take time and be expensive. 300 parts aren't getting any easier to find, either...