Locker vs Open

James86004

Expedition Leader
TeriAnn said:
CDL? TC? Need I be on LSD to figure these out?

I agree - it took me a while to guess that CDL stood for Center Diff Lock, and TC was Traction Control. Sometimes it is like solving a Sudoku puzzle trying to figure them out.

And to me, P38 is an airplane, not a Range Rover.

TTFN,

James
 

michaels

Explorer
TeriAnn said:
CDL? TC? Need I be on LSD to figure these out?

For those of us who do not have "Mighty Ducks" version 2 (D2), could you please take the time to write things out instead of using initials? My initial code book doesn't cover Land Rovers newer than 1983 and isn't necessarily convertible to other marque initials.

No need to do this for past postings, but it would help me figure out what is being said on future postings.

Thanks

CDL=center differential lock
TC= traction control

cdl IS a night and day difference. traction control blows most of the time, but can help in some situations.
 
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jh504

Explorer
expeditionswest said:
Thank you.

These are all valuable discussions, and one we have not had on ExPo to this level of detail. This is a good and informative debate to have.

Taking the avenue out of extreme hill climbs with obstacles frame of mind, I have also been thinking about the type of terrain you guys run out there. Correct me if Im wrong but it is majority loose dirt and sandstone type stuff right? I think that yall probably have much more traction issues than we have out here. Almost all of the local trails I run have a granite base. Even on wet granite I havnt noticed much traction loss as long as a tire is touching. The surface of the rocks tends to be gritty and clean, not smooth, which is excellent for traction.
 

TeriAnn

Explorer
michaels said:
CDL=center differential lock
TC= traction control

cdl IS a night and day difference. traction control blows most of the time, but can help in some situations.

Thanks. Center differential lock is one of those mysterious terms I have yet to fully understand nor am I sure I even want to. It doesn't impact leafer pilots. The transfer case is in two wheel drive or four wheel drive, high range or low range and that's complicated enough for me.

And I always assumed that traction control is a gestalt between a vehicle and the driver's brain.

But I'm just a leafer driver who had to think long and hard to come to grips with the concept of a radio in my vehicle.
 

xcmountain80

Expedition Leader
Hank said:
You people are crazy...front locker only? Seriously?

What do you do when you need to do something like, I don't know, turn?

I run a Limited Slip Differential in the rear and a Lunch Box (Drop in to 3rd member or diff and replaces spider gears. Most home mechanics posses enough skill to install) locker up front, it has served me well with steep hill climbs. I guess it all depends on what you want your rig to do. Being a DD I needed no permanent locker in the rear so an Air locker would have been fine but $$ steered me toward the Limited Slip Differential (Which performs magically). I don't like to bounce and slide so finesse is the name of the game. Some driving with a Front locker is an absolute must to get an idea of what its like. To the best of my ability its like driving my brothers 67 scout on 37's with no power steering, in a rock field. It is EXTREMELY challenging in tight quarters and may or may not require you to unlock. But like everything practice makes perfect.


Aaron
 
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xcmountain80

Expedition Leader
TeriAnn said:
Thanks. Center differential lock is one of those mysterious terms I have yet to fully understand nor am I sure I even want to. It doesn't impact leafer pilots. The transfer case is in two wheel drive or four wheel drive, high range or low range and that's complicated enough for me.

And I always assumed that traction control is a gestalt between a vehicle and the driver's brain.

But I'm just a leafer driver who had to think long and hard to come to grips with the concept of a radio in my vehicle.

If anything like the Toyota's it will lock the F and R together making an even 50/50 power split. From my understanding on shorter wheelbase vehicles this is a good feature that keeps drive shaft bind to a minimum on hard ground or pavement. This is not a feature found on Pickups as the drive shaft is longer and bind has more area to be distributed (I imagine). W/o it engaged the power split is well I don't know, I set it and forget it until I'm done.

Aaron
 

michaels

Explorer
TeriAnn said:
Thanks. Center differential lock is one of those mysterious terms I have yet to fully understand nor am I sure I even want to. It doesn't impact leafer pilots. The transfer case is in two wheel drive or four wheel drive, high range or low range and that's complicated enough for me.

And I always assumed that traction control is a gestalt between a vehicle and the driver's brain.

But I'm just a leafer driver who had to think long and hard to come to grips with the concept of a radio in my vehicle.

haha. well when you put your truck into 4-wheel, the center diff is automatically locked. any part time four wheel drive is this way. since modern land rovers are all full-time 4 wheel drive, you'd grenade the transfer case if the center diff were always locked. so that's why it's a manual option (and also presumably why land rover took out the CDL for a few years in the series II disco. owners left it on on pavement by accident and caused woes for the dealers and LR?)

i've driven my truck without the front driveshaft for a few weeks with the CDL locked, and it felt weird. i drove rear wheel drive trucks until my rover and i'll never go back. i just love the push-pull feel of a full-time rig.

oh and to add some relevance to this thread. i'm putting a toy e-locker in my rear:shakin: right after i get a winch.
 

Scott Brady

Founder
Another way to look at this is how the engineers specify the functional requirements for driver selectable lockers

Toyota E-Locker: Rear first, then Front. Front cannot be operated independently of the rear.

Mercedes G-Wagen: Center, then Rear, then Front. Front cannot be operated independently of the rear.

ARB Wiring Harness: Rear first, then Front. Front cannot be operated independently of the rear.

In all cases above, rear can be operated independent of the front, not vice-versa (without modification)
 

Scott Brady

Founder
For fun-

Hierarchy of overland needs for tractive/rugged track performance...

1. Tires (LT tires of appropriate diameter, tread design and construction.)
2. Winch
3. Rear Locking Differential (Driver Selectable)
4. Front Locking Differential (Driver Selectable)
 

Bill Beers

Explorer
expeditionswest said:
For fun-

Hierarchy of overland needs for tractive/rugged track performance...

1. Tires (LT tires of appropriate diameter, tread design and construction.)
2. Winch
3. Rear Locking Differential (Driver Selectable)
4. Front Locking Differential (Driver Selectable)

Personally,

I prefer 1, 3 ,2, 4. Though in reality, (FZJ80,) I have 1, 3, 4, Someday!

-Bill
 

kevb

Observer
expeditionswest said:
For fun-

Hierarchy of overland needs for tractive/rugged track performance...

1. Tires (LT tires of appropriate diameter, tread design and construction.)
2. Engel
3. Winch
4. Rear Locking Differential (Driver Selectable)
5. Front Locking Differential (Driver Selectable)

There you go Scott, fixed it for you ;-)

Interesting discussion guys, its always good to see how priorities differ depending on your part of the world. I have to say I quite like ETC (electronic traction control) as its better than nothing in most situations I come across, the one exception being deep sand where it is a positive hindrance but I can't see why you would want to permanently disable it, switchable yes. I had a 2000 D2 and all I did to it was knock up a CDL (Centre Diff Lock) linkage and fit some BFG Trac Edge tyres and an Engel and it was good to go.
I (we) currently have 2 Defender 90s, (I know its greedy!) The good one is a stock 2005 with ETC/ABS, all defenders always had the CDL. We also have a 99 D90 which I have fitted ARBs to front and rear. Very few people fit anything other than a selectable locker here in the UK, for me having a Detroit/Truetack type would be lethal on the roads most of the year. I did consider only fitting one ARB and it would have been on the rear. I just cant see the wisdom in front only. My shed is up a muddy track and I regularly had to reverse up to get traction in a fwd (front wheel drive) car as the front would off load and lose traction as the centre of gravity shifted to the rear.
just my tupence worth
 
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Antichrist

Expedition Leader
michaels said:
haha. well when you put your truck into 4-wheel, the center diff is automatically locked.
I think I get what you're trying to say, but technically it's not correct. There is no center diff in stock series Land Rovers. With the exception of very early Series I which sorta had one, but even that wasn't really. It was just an over-run feature to prevent wind-up.
A Series is either 100% rear or 50/50 front/rear.
 

TeriAnn

Explorer
expeditionswest said:
For fun-

Hierarchy of overland needs for tractive/rugged track performance...

1. Tires (LT tires of appropriate diameter, tread design and construction.)
2. Winch
3. Rear Locking Differential (Driver Selectable)
4. Front Locking Differential (Driver Selectable)

Mr Scott, sir,
I'd like to respectfully amend your blanket statement as follows:

0. Experience driving your unmodified stock rig to learn it limits and capabilities. Too many people gear up right away with what is currently fashionable not knowing if the new gear will help or hinder. Get to know thy rig intimately. THEN and only THEN decide if you need to gear up beyond stock and know which vehicle parameters you wish to expand before spending any money on the gear de jour.

1. Tires (LT tires of appropriate diameter, tread design and construction.)

1.1 On board air so you can air up at the end of the trail or as needed then lots of behind the wheel time learning what the tyres do to your vehicle's limits at different pressures in different conditions on different materials. Sometimes airing down is better than having a locker and road inflated tyres.


2. Winch

2.1 go out and purposefully get stuck in different situations just to learn recovery skills. Learn what you winch can and can not do for you. Sometimes it is best to winch yourself over something you might be able to get through with lockers just to prevent a high probability of vehicle damage or undue damage to a delicate ecosystem.

3. Rear Locking Differential (Driver Selectable)

3.1 Go out and spend a lot of time driving those areas where you just could barely make it with an open diff and those that you could not quite make it. Try each open diffed then locked to learn what the locker can do for you and how an open diff can sometimes chew up the trail.

Beware a locked diff can become a crutch that masks poor driving skills. gain the skills before using a locker.

4. Front Locking Differential (Driver Selectable)

4.1 Go out and spend a lot of time driving those areas where you just could barely make it with an open front diff and those that you could not quite make it. Try each open diffed then locked to learn what the locker can do for you. And never forget a locked diff can be VERY hard on steering components, especially if you like to work the front wheels in the soft stuff.

And never forget, gear does not make up for lack of driving experience. Know thy rig and how to guide it through obstacles as damage free as possible. Any poser can spend lots of money for flashy gear and hang it on their mall terrain vehicle.
 
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michaels

Explorer
Antichrist said:
I think I get what you're trying to say, but technically it's not correct. There is no center diff in stock series Land Rovers. With the exception of very early Series I which sorta had one, but even that wasn't really. It was just an over-run feature to prevent wind-up.
A Series is either 100% rear or 50/50 front/rear.
Ahh forgive me.I never owned a part time truck so I wasn't sure of the inherent differences. I figured it functioned just about the same way. I should've said that when her series is in 4wd, it's the same as me locking the CDL in my DII.

EDIT: sorry for the crappy iphone response while driving. spelling checked.:oops:
 
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