Cheap Chinese HT

kellymoe

Expedition Leader
I have been looking around for a spare HT recently and came across a cheap Chinese HT on Ebay, the Puxing-777.
I bought one for $68 out the door. I read a lot of reviews and all seemed pretty happy with them. I currently own a Yaesu VX170 and a Icom V-8 HT in addition to my Yaesu Ft9800r mobile. I wanted something inexpensive I could loan out on trips so I'll see how it works out.

Here is a review I found.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OETgT3MtIbc
 

adventureduo

Dave Druck [KI6LBB]
That's perfect. I've been looking for a cheap spare for spotting rigs while on the trail or hiking away from basecamp radio. For that price, i'll have to order one up. Thanks for posting this.
 

BKCowGod

Automotive ADHD is fun!
Wow, I may have to pick one of those up.

I may also have to get my ham license.

Perhaps not in that order...
 

kellymoe

Expedition Leader
Watched the video but did not catch any info on the range?

I should have mentioned in the title that it's a HAM radio and the range is dependant on repeater sites as well as line of site. I can say that using my Yaesu and my Icom radio to radio I have been able get a range of over 20 miles in open desert and when closer I can communicate with canyons and hills in the way.
 

gary in ohio

Explorer
I have been looking around for a spare HT recently and came across a cheap Chinese HT on Ebay, the Puxing-777.
I bought one for $68 out the door. I read a lot of reviews and all seemed pretty happy with them. I currently own a Yaesu VX170 and a Icom V-8 HT in addition to my Yaesu Ft9800r mobile. I wanted something inexpensive I could loan out on trips so I'll see how it works out.

ALLMOST EVERY chinese HT on ebay is NOT legal in the US. None of them have FCC ID and therefore are not legal on any service in the US. YES even ham gear needs a FCC id now. It might be only part 15 compliance but its required to be sold in the US.

FCC has cracked down on several of the dealers in the US selling those but the out of country dealers are a little harder.
 

kellymoe

Expedition Leader
ALLMOST EVERY chinese HT on ebay is NOT legal in the US. None of them have FCC ID and therefore are not legal on any service in the US. YES even ham gear needs a FCC id now. It might be only part 15 compliance but its required to be sold in the US.

FCC has cracked down on several of the dealers in the US selling those but the out of country dealers are a little harder.

There was a question of FCC legality over on QRZ. One poster posted a link to the FCC showing they are on the list of legal radios. Even so I plan on using these out in the middle of the middle of nowhere for radio to radio use, I'm not going to worry too much about the FCC tracking me down out there. I'll try and track down the link.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Part 15 covers unlicensed transceivers, doesn't it? I don't see how the FCC could crack down on ham gear sold to hams and used on amateur bands for Part 15 compliance.

They could ask the ham to test his rig under Part 97 compliance, which states many of the same spurious EMI requirements as Part 15, just that you have to be licensed to use ham gear.

My guess is if the FCC is cracking down on these Chinese radios it's because they are set up for out of band use already or they have voice scramblers or something else explicitly illegal under Part 97.

But if the radio is a pile of junk and splatters everywhere, I would have assumed that it is the ham's responsibility to deal with it, not the manufacturer. I mean you buy an amp kit and assemble it, you have to tune it up and verify it's compliance before going on the air. Same with commercial ham gear, if you don't know or trust the specs on your radio, is that the manufacturer's problem? Is it Chevy's problem that the Corvette can easily break the speed limit?
 
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gary in ohio

Explorer
Part 15 covers unlicensed transceivers, doesn't it? I don't see how the FCC could crack down on ham gear sold to hams and used on amateur bands for Part 15 compliance.

WRONG, part15 covers EVERYTHING that emits a signal, unlicensed radio, receivers, computers, ipod's, microwaves. Practically everything electronic is controlled by the FCC. Part 15 is required to manufacture and import electronic items into the US.

My guess is if the FCC is cracking down on these Chinese radios it's because they are set up for out of band use already or they have voice scramblers or something else explicitly illegal under Part 97.

Has nothing to do with part 97, They are being imported into the US illegally.
They dont have FCC approval to be imported or sold in the US. The use on any frequency is not legal.

But if the radio is a pile of junk and splatters everywhere, I would have assumed that it is the ham's responsibility to deal with it, not the manufacturer. I mean you buy an amp kit and assemble it, you have to tune it up and verify it's compliance before going on the air. Same with commercial ham gear, if you don't know or trust the specs on your radio, is that the manufacturer's problem? Is it Chevy's problem that the Corvette can easily break the speed limit?

While a ham is responsible for his transmissions and if I would build my own radio I have to meet part 97 emission rules. If I manufacure more than a fixed number of units and offer them for sale, I now need to meet part 15 and other rules.
 

gary in ohio

Explorer
There was a question of FCC legality over on QRZ. One poster posted a link to the FCC showing they are on the list of legal radios. Even so I plan on using these out in the middle of the middle of nowhere for radio to radio use, I'm not going to worry too much about the FCC tracking me down out there. I'll try and track down the link.

If the unit you get has an FCC ID on it then and only then is it legal. Even if its a model PX-777 and doesnt have a FCC ID sticker on the radio then its not legal. Where you use the radio in the US doesnt change the fact it not legal if the FCC ID label is not affixed to the radio.


For those hams' violation of FCC rules, EVEN rules that are not ham radio related can get your ham radio license revoked. A number of "CB"er with ham license have lost there ham license.
 

kellymoe

Expedition Leader
Several people have said that Infinity imports the Puxing 777 and 777+ and slaps their name on it with a FCC ID #. One poster said he called Infinity and the FCC and confirmed this. So apparently it's legal if it's sold under the Infinity name but the same radio imported by Puxing may not be legal, I'll have to wait and see if the radio has the FCC ID# on it when it shows up.
There are other threads that say the Puxing 777 does have the FCC sticker on the radio and it is completely legal. Like I said, I'll let you know.

If it does not have a FCC ID# I promise I will take the biggest hammer I have to it:sombrero: I wouldn't want some terrorist getting ahold of this dangerous bit of hi tech gear.
 

Ursidae69

Expedition Leader
If the FCC can't stop truckers from running huge amplifiers on CB bleeding over channels for a hundred miles, and in fact they are not even trying to stop the truckers from doing this, why would they enforce this rule?

What is the difference between a radio with a FCC ID and a radio without one technically speaking? What are the potential ramifications of running a radio without a FCC ID? None maybe? :coffee:
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
WRONG, part15 covers EVERYTHING that emits a signal, unlicensed radio, receivers, computers, ipod's, microwaves. Practically everything electronic is controlled by the FCC. Part 15 is required to manufacture and import electronic items into the US.
My bad, I obviously misread the law.

Section 15.1 Scope of this Part.
(a) This Part sets out the regulations under which an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator may be operated without an individual license. It also contains the technical specifications, administrative requirements and other conditions relating to the marketing of Part 15 devices.

(b) The operation of an intentional or unintentional radiator that is not in accordance with the regulations in this Part must be licensed pursuant to the provisions of Section 301 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, unless otherwise exempted from the licensing requirements elsewhere in this Chapter.

(c) Unless specifically exempted, the operation or marketing of an intentional or unintentional radiator that is not in compliance with the administrative and technical provisions in this Part, including prior Commission authorization or verification, as appropriate, is prohibited under Section 302 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, and Subpart I of Part 2 of this Chapter. The equipment authorization and verification procedures are detailed in Subpart J of Part 2 of this Chapter.


Don't believe, does the ARRL hold any weight with you?

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/part15.html

Overview

Hams are very familiar with Part 97 of Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations. These are the rules that govern ham radio. There are other Parts in Title 47 that govern other radio services. Part 15 of Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations is important to amateurs because it regulates low power, unlicensed devices that could cause interference to the Amateur Radio Service and vice versa. Part 15 covers an assortment of electronic equipment that generates RF energy whether it's intentional, unintentional or incidental. Amateurs will need to consider Part 15 as it relates to digital devices, computers, low-powered, unlicensed transmitters, electrical devices and any other "generic" device that might generate RF in the normal course of its operation.

What is overheard on the air, or on Internet newsgroups and discussion forums is any indication, hams don't understand much about Part 15. There are a lot of "urban myths" that tend to confuse an already-confusing topic. These web pages explain the sections of Part 15 that are especially important to amateurs.


Myths About Part 15

There are a lot of urban myths about Part 15 rules and devices. The first is that their signal levels are very small and it is not likely that they will cause harmful interference. Although this is true in most cases, the radiated emissions levels in Part 15 were designed to protect one neighbor's television reception from another neighbor's video game, as an example. The permitted radiation levels are not enough to always protect sensitive amateur reception. As one example, intentional radiators and carrier-current devices are permitted a field strength of 30 microvolts/meter at 30 meters distance from the source. On HF, this legal signal, if heard on an 80 meter half-wave dipole, would result in a received signal of S9+15 dB on most receiver S meters! This clearly would be harmful interference in the Amateur Radio Service.

Many hams believe that all devices regulated by Part 15, including transmitters and digital devices, are "type accepted" by the FCC, with testing in the FCC Lab. Type acceptance has actually been written out of the FCC rules. Devices that were Type Accepted under the old rules are now subject to Certification or a Declaration of Conformity. To obtain Certification, a manufacturer supplies test data to the FCC, usually from a laboratory that the FCC knows and trusts, and Certification is usually issued on the basis of the test data and other information about the product. In a Declaration of Conformity, the manufacturer issues a formal statement to the FCC that the device has been tested at an accredited laboratory and that it complies with the rules.

Although the FCC can call in equipment for testing, in almost all cases, the FCC does not actually perform testing on equipment covered by Part 15. They usually review information and test data supplied by the manufacturer. Most computing devices are subject to Certification or a Declaration of Conformity.


Any other service that requires a license is regulated under the rules of that service. You violate Part 97, Section 300 if your rig causes interference during it's intended use. The device I suppose could violate Part 15 if it creates unintended interference otherwise, say due to its microprocessor. If your neighbor's TV goes wacky because of your ham rig when you key up, then the FCC will ask for compliance to Part 97, not Part 15, for your radio. The TV's reciever section must meet Part 15 for rejection of out-of-band EMI, though, too. So if you are operating within your authority and your equipment is up to spec, then it's perfectly legitimate to expect the TV to also meet it's CFR requirements for selectivity and rejection.

Your equipment must either be self tested (i.e you are personally certifying the rig under your operating authority) or carry a certificate of conformity related to the Part and Section under which you are licensed. Some of these Chinese radios DO carry certificates of conformity from FCC-approved labs for compliance and so broad generalizations of their illegality are not fair.

However, correct me if I'm wrong, in this case it looks like Puxing is tested for private radio services, i.e. Part 90. It was issued back in August of 2006.

You can check it yourself.

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/

Puxing's FRN: 0015138381
Puxing's Comliance Application: 614419
Puxing's FCC ID: UBY
PX-777 Product Code: QZPUXING02

TCB was Bay Area Compliance Labs and TCB scope was GMRS and Broadcast Services equipment in the following 47 CFR Parts 22 (non-cellular) 73, 74, 90, 95 and 97.
 
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DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Several people have said that Infinity imports the Puxing 777 and 777+ and slaps their name on it with a FCC ID #. One poster said he called Infinity and the FCC and confirmed this. So apparently it's legal if it's sold under the Infinity name but the same radio imported by Puxing may not be legal, I'll have to wait and see if the radio has the FCC ID# on it when it shows up.
There are other threads that say the Puxing 777 does have the FCC sticker on the radio and it is completely legal. Like I said, I'll let you know.

If it does not have a FCC ID# I promise I will take the biggest hammer I have to it:sombrero: I wouldn't want some terrorist getting ahold of this dangerous bit of hi tech gear.
You are essentially right, the importer, manufacturer or user can or must be the certifier. In the case of amateur radio the ham may be the ultimate holder of the conformance certificate or verification (some devices are always subject to test, like medical devices must be tested). The point is that someone must have sent the radio to a Telecommunications Certification Body (TCB) or done the measurements that demonstrate upon request of the FCC that the device either through design or tune-up meets the requirements placed on it.

Hams have a unique authority that no other end user of another service has, that you can build, modify and use a device on our service that is not tested by a lab. They grant us the authority to test things ourselves whereas a business user or CB or just about anyone else must submit their radio to a lab or shop that holds a approval to build, fix or test the devices. These places are called NVLAPs (accredited under the National Voluntary Laboratory Accreditation Program) or have met certain approvals otherwise with the FCC.

BTW, this is not a homeland security issue (which I know you are saying in jest), but just how the FCC tries to keep individual services from creating havoc on other users. The more and more junk we cram into the spectrum the more chance for interference we get. This is all laid out in Part 2, Section 900 of the FCC CFR, who must get the various certificates, who's responsible for getting it (the grantee OEM, importer, user, etc.) and what-not.

All of this is why I think the Puxing radios are OK for ham use in theory. They hold a Part 90 certificate and you modify them for use on ham. This in my view seems just the same as buying a legal CB and modifying for use on 10 or 12 meter ham. The CB was accepted for use under Part 95 and you re-tuned it for Part 97. Assuming it stays on frequency and within bandwidth, there is absolutely nothing illegal about that. Once it's used for ham, though, it can never be used anywhere else again without being re-tested for the original purpose. IOW, the original manufacturer's CoC no longer covers the radio by similarity since you have voided that by modifying it.

So if you buy a PX-777 that was designed and approved as a business radio and re-tune it for ham VHF, then assuming it does not splatter or drift, then you have a perfectly legal radio even if the manufacturer does not submit it for Part 97 approval like Vertex or Kenwood might have for their ham radios.

So, the illegal part is the importer bringing it in and selling it new as a ham radio and not a business radio without ever sending it to (a) a TCB for a Part 97 CoC testing or (2) selling to a Part 90 license holder first. Once it's owned by a Part 90 licensee, what he does with it is up to him. That path would be the same as reusing old GE or Motorola business repeaters for ham repeaters.
 

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