Thoughts on suspension for an expedition bicycle

[bmwstbill@yahoo.com]

Chris,
It's a camping bike, a comfort bike, a bicycle RV and a tough as nails touring bike for an old man with 5 broken collar bones, all the ribs, broken back, etc, etc, ex-motorcycle racer who rode his mc around the world a couple of times and is bored with engines cause he has fixed so many.

It's a dual sport bicycle.
It's the future and the past.
I will live out there on it.

Haul my gear, go anywhere.
I always had Euro mc's, last is a KTM Adventure.
That's the inspiration for the bicycle build.

Think Koga world tour bicycles.

The bicycle has to go here.
Gobi desert, Mongolia.
(picture of idiot bike builder too)


bill

[Bike_Mech]

Well if someone came in and told me that description I would steer them toward a rigid fork with some carbon bars and oury grips. That would be a simple settup that would take care of the vibrations(which I think are the most exhausting). That titanium frame is a great choice.

But with your injuries you may need a suspension fork to keep your body happy. That suspension seatpost will help, but you may want to look at a thudbuster. They don't change your saddle to pedal length as dramatically as the style you currently have.

-Chris

[bmwstbill@yahoo.com]

Chis,
Thanks for the suggestion of the Thud buster, not too much money and looks like a real back saver. I get the design, real unique with the multiple link for maintaining seat height..

Could you send a link to the rigid forks you are suggesting, I'll take a look.
I did some more adjusting on the Manitou and it really does suck up the tar lines and small bumps. Hard to believe because the travel is so short. I got on loose, freshly graded pit run gravel and that was much different and rough.I lightened the compression damping and that helped some.I had the tires hard so they skittered around. Well I stayed up and the climbing was OK only wanting for more leg.

Since the Manitou doesn't have a cartridge, just oil and shims about the only thing I know of that could wear out with this style suspension is the sliding bushings internally, probably teflon coated or some such. Based on how mc suspension lasts, that design in bicycles on the road should be very long lived. Motorcycle suspension of that design is good for 100k miles.

What's the quality of bicycle forks?
Do they stand up in your experience?

The performance of the Manitou is fine enough but I already see the Thudbuster and the fork in place.

I have another question also.
I have a Surly LHT as my back up bike that my gf has stolen but we exchange.
Anyway the Surly has 36 hole Alex Adventure rims on Shimano LX hubs, the Litespeed has Mavic 32 hole 717 rims on the same hubs. Should I switch wheels taking the 36 holers for the Litespeed?

What's the strongest or is it a wash.
Thanks again, bill

[bmwstbill@yahoo.com]

Jay h replied in a different thread:


Bill you are going to need more than just a fork as fork with brake posts are all but extinct. Any rock shox that is not the dart and any fox fork will be a huge improvement. I would recommend the avid BB7 disc brake as it will probably work with the lever you already have. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a disc only up front. Of course the other issue is that you have to get a wheel with a disc hub. Seriously they dont even make good forks with brake posts any more. Dont put a fork with additional travel on as it will effect the geometry and handling and if your happy with it currently why change. Sticking with the same axle to crown height will do you well. You probably need a fork with 80mm travel. Many can be shimmed down to this.

I would not even consider a used suspension fork, I know exactly what the internals look like when they come off my bikes, worn out. Just imagine every used fork as an engine with 120,000 miles and no oil changes at all, not even so much as checking the level with the dip stick, this gets you close to the condition of most used forks, pour some sand and water in and were there. A used fork may look nice but it will be full of sludge that smells like cat crap.

A decent fork is not cheap expect to pay about 400 bucks. Since you probably need a new front wheel for the disc any way dont limit your self to standard 9mm drop outs like the fork you have, a 15mm thru axle is better in every way. A good air fork will allow you to adjust for loaded and unloaded weights. A rock shox solo air is particularly reliable. NO suspension product is low maintenance. Most never do preventive maintenance on forks even thought they typically have a service interval of only 100 hours, I recommend doing the maintenance or having it done.

The cheap way out is to go rigid. This has its own pros and cons.

My reply to Jay:

Jay,
Sounds like at the very least I need to disassemble the Manitou forks to check bushings and shims and at least try to find fresh fork seals.

If the bushings are still good could I expect some years of road riding with oil changes?

At least so far thw forks have passed the shake and smell test, they are good.
One saving grace is that the manuals are all on line for tuning and rebuilding.

I have done many motorcycle forks so the bicycle forrks don't seem like Mission Impossible to tear them down but I get fooled every day.

Your advice on rigid forks would be appreciated.

Bike mech has suggested a better seat post in a previos thread. I can dig that.

Every rigid fork I have ridden on so far was shake and bake compared to the antique Manitou..

Thanks,
bill

[Jay H]

Flounders advice about avoiding panniers could not be more spot on.

This thread is cool in that it really seems to highlight the difference between touring, dirt touring, and bike packing.

A frame bag custom fitted to your frame and a few various other bags are the way to go. I use panniers on my fargo but there really just for commuting and running errands or road tours. Off road and real single track they are awful even on the fargo which is crazy stable. Also its much cheaper to shave pounds on camping gear than it on bike parts. Once you spend about 2500 on a mountain bike taking off additional weight gets expensive. Suspension or rigid is really about where you like to ride, that said most if not all of the Arizona Trail 700 contenders, Scott Morris, Chad Brown and Lee Blackwell in particular tend to ride short travel full suspension 29ers with crazy light camping gear and frame bags.

Flounder is spot on again with the assertion that dialing in and perfecting your bike packing kit is super important.

Bill

I would do some googleing many manitou sx ti forks were recalled. Many of the cast magnesium lowers cracked at the drop outs or across the brake arch. I broke one when I was a junior class racer and weighted all of 110 lbs. I really dont trust them. I also broke a manitou mach 5 by snapping off both legs right under the crown, one of the elastomers inside even flew out and hit me in the chest. The second instance I was riding trials so it dosnt really count. I have not had other forks fail catastrophically and I am a lot heaver and even more aggressive now.

Also no one pays msrp for a fork, year end close outs can be so much less. When a good sale happens its easy to pick up a for around 400 bucks or about half the msrp.

[dieselcruiserhead]

I've put many an air fork through hell and the only issue is occasionally they need new oil and new seals. does not take much for special tools and is done in about a 1/2 hour. I don't know if this is still current but the only fork that was "complex" and required a specialist was a Fox Talas because the Talas unit has a precharge of nitrogen. Manitou and many others including some dearly beloved small fork manufacturers I've used ultimately do not hold up that well and Fox and Rockshox is where I believe it's at after lots of experimentation. the high volume high budget high precisions manufacturers really do have a leg up on most others that are small or medium. All of my friends who have tried Manitou again lately recently, for example, have been burned.

The only way I would feel any concerns with a suspension fork would be if I were to do an around the world trip or something and it might need to or 3 oil swaps. Same oil as motorcycle fork oil, again not rocket science.

I've ridden rigid quite a bit and even being young and dumb and can take a beating I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I would also definitely do steel or ti bare minimum on any hard tail as aluminum transmits right to the rear. But honestly I would go lean and mean like the link I posted above and continue to ride a full suspension. Hard tails and single speeds, or poor or limiting gearing ratios have little appeal to me and I have considerable time on single speed and hard tails. There is a reason everyone is on a full suspension and mine has been through hell and back with maybe 4K miles and two oil changes riding rough and dusty off road terrain only exclusively. This could be drastically stretched on a touring bike.

For bikes, the more spokes or the smaller wheel diameter the better for wheel strength. If running 29er and a heavy load (yourself or the bike) then 36 hole goes a long way. Hub makes a big difference too. I am about 235 these days (tall guy, 6'5) and ride 32 hole 650b, 29er front also 32 hole. I have ridden a set of Hope hubs with 36 hole NoTubes Flow rims that were light and indestructible of course... 36 hole is nice but not necessary but depends drastically on weight.

Lots of 2012 bikes are running through axle 142mm rear instead of old traditional 135 mm rear. this is also not overkilled or needed but helps as well too.

thanks / good luck

[bmwstbill@yahoo.com]

Just a quick udate.
After a long search of all the possibilities I could find I decided to go here...

http://salsacycles.com/components/cromoto_26/

Salsa Cro Moto fork. It has canti posts and is suspension corrected for 26 inch wheels and 80mm forks.

I'll post some pics and a review after I get it installed and do some riding.

Thanks to all who contributed so far.
bill

[ywen]

riding the white rim trail? that bike is overkill

http://whileoutriding.com/2010/11/16...l-canyonlands/

[pratty85]

Yeah, who needs suspension??

That is a sweet setup! What company makes those tire and chain splashgaurds? I really like that frame pack too!

[redneck44]

Personally I would give, suspension a miss on long haul bike, but for the trails mentioned and the duration (less than a week) I would go for a full sus without racks.
If you want to see what long haul cyclists are doing/using check this site out http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/
Round the world on a Penny Farthing anyone???????