Advice on Insulating Layer...

[Stan the Man]

I'm looking to get an insulating layer relatively soon. I've done a lot of research and a lot of hands on trying and I've decided that Eddie Bauer honestly fits me the best. I'm a tall and slim guy at 210 pounds, 6'7". My problem with EVERY jacket I've tried on has been the sleeves being to short. When I step up the layer in size to get longer sleeves, the torso widens and gets really baggy. With EB, I've been able to get a "Tall Large" to fit just about perfect; sleeves are the correct length and the torso is close to my body.

I've narrowed it down to three options. I'd like to get one by the end of next week and possibly another of the three in the future to broaden my possibilities. I currently have an EB hard shell and its been great so far. I'd like this insulating layer to be WARM and compressible enough to not take over my whole pack.

I plan on wearing this layer often during the 3 season, so it will see some rain. If its pouring outside, I'll wear it under my current hard shell. If its just cold out, then I'll take this new layer solo.

Now here's my point of this thread: they are all different styles. Puffy down, puffy synthetic, and a typical soft shell. What are your opinions and which one would you choose?

Here's my current hard shell and yours truly. Its not very packable, but it does keep me dry.

Here are my 3 choices. First an 800 fill down sweater. Extremely light and warm. Can take a some water, but not much. On sale for $150.

Soft shell, warm, a little heavier but probably most durable. $130

Last thing is their new Igniter jacket. Primaloft insulation, a little heavier than the down, but doesn't have problems getting wet. Compressibility on par with down, and almost as warm. $200

 

[mwigant]

Due to living in the humid east (and a lack of funds), I was always a synthetic guy. However, there is no synthetic that performs like down in terms of comfort, weight, longevity, and compressability. I now would use synthetic only when it is required. The only thing about a down coat is that it can't be your only insulation because you'll need to take it off during exercise so as not to wet it from the inside. A vest or a coat with zip off sleeves would be a little more versatile.

Mike

 

[SunTzuNephew]

Cabelas offers tall sizes, as do a few other manufacturers (Columbia, for one but the talls are hard to find).

Beyond clothing actually custom-makes each piece to your measurements:

http://beyondclothing.com/products/jackets/soft-shell/

 

[Stan the Man]

Thanks for the plug on Beyond clothing. Looks like a quality product for a good price, considering its all made to fit. I'll have to give them a call when I'm in need of a pair of pants. The jackets are a little more than I want to shell out right now.

I did a little more research and found some very useful information on a backpacking forum. Soft shells offer little warmth, but rather wind blockage and are intended to be worn for physical activities since they breath well; hiking, biking, etc. I don't think thats what I need right now, as I need something warm for this winter.

I'm really leaning towards the down sweater right now. My main thing to get it over the primaloft jacket is price. The outer shell is water resistant, so it can handle some rain, but not a down pour. I think it fits what I want the best out of the three, plus its on sale. I can save the ~$60 I'll save and put that towards a soft shell in the future. From what mwigiant said, it looks like the best combo to wear is a breathable soft shell during physical activities (backpacking) and then pull the down out of my sack when I get to camp to stay warm.


Quick question: If I were to wear a soft shell and the down at the same time, which would be the outer shell? Or is this a big no-no?

 

[off.track]

1. you know the negs.. also, see those baffles? if there isn't another set on the inside that is offset, forget about it if you're going to spend any time in cold wind.

2. i have a north face one.. may be the best clothing purchase i have ever made. not just for active.. it's one of the warmest thing i have.. i can layer with a thin fleece inside and take some serious cold.. the only thing mine does not do is stop the wind.. may be worth the extra $$ from what i hear.

3. i bought a similar jacket made by Patagonia.. i paid $50 for it in March.. originally 150 or 200.. this is probably the second best clothing purchase i have made. it packs small, is very light and has allowed me to pack with just my summer bag in the spring and fall.. i have several other patagonia pieces.. if you want to be warm in any condition... look into them.. not sure about tall/big thing.. large stuff fits me well and i'm 6-2.

 

[Stan the Man]

1. you know the negs.. also, see those baffles? if there isn't another set on the inside that is offset, forget about it if you're going to spend any time in cold wind.

2. i have a north face one.. may be the best clothing purchase i have ever made. not just for active.. it's one of the warmest thing i have.. i can layer with a thin fleece inside and take some serious cold.. the only thing mine does not do is stop the wind.. may be worth the extra $$ from what i hear.

3. i bought a similar jacket made by Patagonia.. i paid $50 for it in March.. originally 150 or 200.. this is probably the second best clothing purchase i have made. it packs small, is very light and has allowed me to pack with just my summer bag in the spring and fall.. i have several other patagonia pieces.. if you want to be warm in any condition... look into them.. not sure about tall/big thing.. large stuff fits me well and i'm 6-2.

What is this #2 you're talking about? A soft shell or down? I tried Patagonia down and the sleeves were way too short. Stepped up to an XL and the torso was too loose.

Good observation on #1, I'll have to look into that.

 

[off.track]

i went in the order of your pictures. #2 = softshell

the baffle issue may not be an issue if you wear the outer coat with it. i just don't.

 

[Stan the Man]

i went in the order of your pictures. #2 = softshell

the baffle issue may not be an issue if you wear the outer coat with it. i just don't.

Ahh I see. I understand now. Thanks for the input. I'll go back to the store and try them on again, bring some layers, and hope to get a better idea. Its hard to tell what will work for me when I can't take them outside before I buy. I mean, I can also give it a go and take it back if its not what I wanted.

 

[Christophe Noel]

You've got an apple and orange thing going with two "fill" jackets and a softshell. The soft shell is ideally designed to be a mild weather outer layer. They're great for wind, slight moisture, etc. They offer great mobility, durability and low bulk.

The other two jackets are similar in that they are "filled" garment designed for big insulation. Anything with a nylon shell will fend off wind to a large degree (that comment about "stitch through" baffles is spot on as that can be a draft point on cheaper jackets). You also have to understand that all outdoor garments (save for most fleece) will have a very mild DWR coating on it to fend off moisture. Think of this as wax. DWR stands for Durable Water RESISTANCE coating. Resistant being the key word. And thinking of it as a wax, it is also not permanent. It will come off rather quickly. So, all three of these jackets (and all like them) will have a mild DWR coating.

And don't be mistaken in thinking a synthetic fill jacket won't mind getting wet. It won't kill it, and you can argue it will have some mild thermal value when wet, but getting any "filled" jacket wet is a big no-no.

For ultimate insulation, it's pretty tough to beat down. Down also has a good degree of "moisture transferance" which simply means it doesn't build up that stuffy wet heat like a synthetic piece can. Down helps you feel more regulated...not to hot or cold.

Regarding softshells, think of most softshells as a mild fleece that is wind resistant, water resistant and durable. Some are waterproof, but not many.

 

[Stan the Man]

Thanks for that information. I thought a soft shell wss for warmth at the time of my first post. With this thread and a little more research in the right areas, I found out they are more for physical activities and wind blockage.

I don't really have any experience with either down or synthetic, I don't like feeling clammy. My only experience with synthetic is with my new North Face bag, and that thing is tons warmer than my old cotton Coleman bag haha.

I'm aware of the dwr coating. Where is a good place to pick up some more? My current hard shell/ uninsulated parka is in need of a new coating.

Lastly, when you say fill jackets don't like getting wet, what do you mean? How wet is wet? I knew the down didn't like it from the start, but I honestly don't know what everybody considers wet...

 

[teotwaki]

Soft shells are good for exertion and when you stop just pull the insulating layer over it. I lived in my Arcyteryx softshell and used a North Face Redpoint Optimus synth jacket to layer over it.

Your weather conditions, how much you sweat, how inactive or active you will be are all factors. I tend to take a while to research and then wait for sales. I hate paying full price, especially never will for Arcteryx!

 

[Bad Voodoo]

Small article w/ recommendations for insulating layers:

http://hardcoreoutdoor.com/2009/02/...ation-jacket--best-wool-insulation-piece.aspx

 

[off.track]

i don't know you guys. my soft shell is hell of a good insulator.

 

[DaveInDenver]

i don't know you guys. my soft shell is hell of a good insulator.

I'm another who can be generally comfortable in my softshell (Arc'teryx with Power Shield). But I would not put it in the same insulating category as something with loft as a general purpose jacket.

 

[teotwaki]

i don't know you guys. my soft shell is hell of a good insulator.

Agreed, they are great....but our metabolisms, type and level of activity, fitness, cold or heat tolerance, weather and air temps are all factors too.

I think the OP mentioned fitting things into a pack so weight and compressability are factors. Eddie Bauer has supposedly improved a lot as in getting their clothing back to their mountaineering roots.

Based on the first post I'd say go with a synthetic fill jacket because dampness or outright getting wet.