Gore-tex Parka

Christophe Noel

Expedition Leader
As the buyer for a large store, I have to choose between offerings from The North Face, Patagonia, Mountain Hardwear, Arc'Teryx, Cloudviel, Marmot and even Pearlizumi, Sugoi and Columbia. Yes, we have too many lines, but...

The level of quality offered by Arc'Teryx could deteriorate and still be superior to anything else. It truly is head and shoulders above the rest. I was a buyer when Arc'Teryx introduced their first Gore Tex shells and it was revolutionary then - well over ten years ago. They continue to innovate and stay well ahead of everyone else. Does it keep you drier? No. Dry is dry. However, it is beautiful stuff.

One thing I see on a weekly basis is disappointment with laminate shells that has nothing to do with the product. People don't seem to realize that even a $700 laminate jacket is worthless without $5 worth of DWR treatment. The factory DWR coatings on most shell pieces degrades quickly, which allows the parent fabric of the laminate to get wet. That allows moisture to sit too closely to the laminate itself, which in turn clogs all of those glorious little pores that makes the fabric breath. Toss in a hard effort and moisture accumulates inside. A quick glance at the soggy exterior often leads people to believe the shell has leaked when in reality, it has gotten soaked and not allowed internal moisture to escape. That little bottle of DWR is not just on the shelf of your local outdoor store for looks. :)

By the way, I have jackets with H2No (Patagonia), Conduit (Mountain Hardwear), eVent (Pearlizumi), as well as a few shells with Gore Tex Paclite, XCR, etc, and they all work as advertised. Key to that is proper maintenance of the piece with proper washing and treatment of the DWR. What goes under it also counts.
 
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R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
That's an interesting point about the exterior DWR. Never thought of it that way. However, the jacket I bought for my wife with Entrant suffered a complete failure of the membrane. First is cracked, so was no longer waterproof, then it started flaking off completely.
 

robert

Expedition Leader
Since you asked for models, not just which product- I'm still running an old North Face Mountain Light from 1991. It's been back to the factory to be repaired twice, once after I spilled nitric acid on it (collecting water samples- the acid is the preservative), and once after I snagged it with a fish hook. Both times the GoreTex liner was unaffected even thought the outer material was damaged (it has patches sewn on it by North Face). It doesn't shed water quite like it used to, but it still works and I still lug it around every year. I've got an old Denali jacket that zips into it too- funny how many of the trendy people look at my old stained model and wonder why mine looks different than theirs. I've got plenty of older North Face stuff, but they definitely seem to be catering to the yuppies now, but that's where the money is. I have one of their Hyvent jackets too (I think it's the Venture) but it gets soaked through pretty quick in a downpour and you can't zip a liner into it.

My brother is running a Mountain Hardwear jacket I believe it is that he likes and it's held up well so far and he's not easy on equipment either.

Not sure what I'd buy if I had to buy another jacket today, but it'd probably be Gore-Tex. I'm a bit of a Luddite.
 

off.track

Adventurer
(My Marmot Precip might be the exception).
no kidding? i'm about to send mine back for repairs as the darn thing delaminated a while back ago and it never really kept me dry.. the pants on the other hand, have been excellent.
 
Since you asked for models, not just which product- I'm still running an old North Face Mountain Light from 1991.

My main rain jacket is also a North Face Mountain Light, from about '98. Still works great and it was money well spent. When you *have* to stand out in the pouring rain for hours at a time (search & rescue, etc.) you need good rain gear or you're going to suffer...

I have an REI Taku jacket that I was given but I'm not a big fan of the cut. We have have a couple of older REI waterproof/breathable jackets that work pretty well though. I also have a surplus GI camo Gortex jacket ($45 or so on eBay) that I keep in the Jeep during rainy season. It works pretty well and it's got a tough outer layer. I use that one when I think I might have to thrash it, like lying in the water/mud.

I don't usually go for zip-in systems, I just layer well with fleece etc. as needed. Along those lines, I prefer Gore Tex shells and not insulated Gore Tex jackets, because I want to be able to keep the thing on if it's raining but it's also warm out.

I have some coated jackets for light use around town or such, but I don't like them for anything beyond that.
 

Rando

Explorer
To add my two cents - I have been using an Arctryx goretex XCR jacket for the past 8 years or so with no complaints what so ever (except for the financial pain of buying it as a grad student). If I were to buy a new jacket today I would probably look into something else. It seems that in lab tests eVent compares favorably to goretex, it is waterproof and breathes better:
http://www.shelby.fi/tips/breathability.pdf

That being said, I don't think you will go wrong with goretex or eVent or any of the other options from a reputable manufacturer. It has also been my experience that the 'alpinist oriented' brands (eg Arctryx, Patagonia, MEC etc) typically produce more functional and technically more advanced equipment than the 'sportsmen oriented' brands (eg Cabellas, Browning etc) although the 'sportsmen' stuff is often heavier weight and therefore a little more durable.
 

daverami

Explorer
I have a North Face Mountain Lite and I like it. Have had it for several years.

Kind of off topic but what do you guys wash your jackets in? Do you need to put any of that reconditioning stuff in the wash for the Goretex?
 

lovetoski

Observer
It is pretty obtuse to think that this one 31 year old fabric is better than others based on marketing material and pure speculation.


Full disclosure - I have worked for W.L.Gore for 22 years. I was a PLM at a clothing manufacturer before that, and we used Gore-Tex fabric. So, I've been "affiliated" for a heck of a long time. Possibly I am biased. I prefer to think that I work where I do because the product does what we say it does.

31 years old...we don't make that product anymore. We make continuous improvements to our laminates, but rarely talk about them. We are a product company, maybe not so much a marketing company.

Most of the other waterproof/breathable suppliers talk about the performance of their fabric. We talk about the performance of the finished product (the jackt, glove, boot). We only do business with brands that have the same attitude we do about the fitness for use of the end product. Every product is tested before it makes it to retail. Every factory is certified based on measurable quality standards. I could go on, but I'd prolly be boring.

There is no bad weather - only bad clothing.
 

lovetoski

Observer
I have a North Face Mountain Lite and I like it. Have had it for several years.

Kind of off topic but what do you guys wash your jackets in? Do you need to put any of that reconditioning stuff in the wash for the Goretex?

Gore-Tex is engineered to be washed often. Washing + drying makes it work better. It's a simple procedure:
Wash - any soap is fine.
Rinse - best if it's a second rinse w/out soap.
Dry - medium heat.

If after the above water doesn't bead on the surface of the fabric, an aftermarket repellant treatment is in order. Use it per the instructions.
 

MarcFJ60

Adventurer
I seem to recall a similar posting on 'Mud and I think it might have been authored by you Lovetoski. Nice to know my faith in Goretex may be well founded. I still haven't found the ideal jacket just yet, but have taken all the suggestions under consideration.

I have been using my Marmot Precip more and more with layers underneath. Other than the hood, I really like the jacket. I wore it snowshoeing today, so it is no longer just my summer rain jacket. It is a very light jacket, however, and I think I would like something a bit more durable.

I recently ordered a Marmot Transit jacket because it was only $89 on steepandcheap. I really just plan to use it around town in the winter, but once I get it I will see if it is suitable for other uses. It uses "Membrain" - so we'll see how that holds up.

My primary concern still is about the durability of the waterproofing. I have not been able to resurrect other jackets after washing and retreating. And although water may not go all the way through, once the fabric gets saturated it is not comfortable to wear. I need to try that DWR - hopefully it will do better. But I really like the idea of just washing and drying it to restore its functionality.
 

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