1998 Dodge Ram 3500 build

[Deleted member 12023]

Definitely get a full set of leaves. No reason to skimp there.

When getting a full set of leaves, are there many options to remove the factory blocks? They seem almost dangerous when you start looking at them.

Are something like these http://www.topguncustomz.com/Store/Gen2ProdDisplay.php?iview=182339596
considered OK. Or is Skyjacker pretty much junk?

The goal being to keep payload but softening the ride. This seems difficult without paying $1000 for custom Deavers or Alcans.

 

[jason]

There are some options, but that doesn't mean you can get rid of a block completely. The rear spring perch has a slight curve to it, meaning it's not flat. So you have to run some fashion of a block or thick shim. I looked all over SJ's website for install instructions for those leaf springs, but couldn't find any. I'm not sure if they include a small block with them or not.

As for the steering brace, I've seen a few that bind up so bad when the suspension is flexed, that they cause the sector shaft to bind up causing no steering at all. There's been a few broken bearings on the ones that tie the front frame rails together. A buddy in PA made one that attaches only to the driver's side framerail. Seems to be holding up good so far, so I may get something like that. I can see a huge benefit on the road, but when the suspension is bound up, that bearing puts so much lateral force on the shaft, it can either bind it up or the bearing can break.

The other option for the rear is a shackle flip. I've heard that if you do that, though, the load-carrying capacity is greatly reduced. It would net you enough lift to reduce the block size to maybe 2", but gain you at least that in overall lift. I don't see a problem if the truck would never see more than about 1000lbs. in the bed, or a trailer with a tounge weight of about 500 or less. I wouldn't recommend hauling a 5th wheel with it, though.

 

[chris_the_wrench]

Man that's a killer setup!

Are you running limiting straps? Are those the Carli springs? What about the shock towers-stock or aftermarket?

Thanks
-Chris

Good work so far, keep it up! As always, lots of pictures

Personally, I don't think I could ever go with a poly bushing in a vehicle that was going to be offroad alot. Plenty of ways to argue the pro's and con's of poly vs. heim joint. Here's what I have on my 2500.

 

[angusdevil]

When getting a full set of leaves, are there many options to remove the factory blocks? They seem almost dangerous when you start looking at them.

Are something like these http://www.topguncustomz.com/Store/Gen2ProdDisplay.php?iview=182339596
considered OK. Or is Skyjacker pretty much junk?

The goal being to keep payload but softening the ride. This seems difficult without paying $1000 for custom Deavers or Alcans.

There is a difference between leafs that will give you lift and ones that have a more aggressive spring rate. Kore, Carli and Thuren all get theirs from Deaver but have their own specifics designed for them. Kore's are the stiffest while Don's are much springier. If your pockets were deep, the ideal setup would get a set of deavers and a set of long-travel airbags.

There are some options, but that doesn't mean you can get rid of a block completely. The rear spring perch has a slight curve to it, meaning it's not flat. So you have to run some fashion of a block or thick shim. I looked all over SJ's website for install instructions for those leaf springs, but couldn't find any. I'm not sure if they include a small block with them or not.

3rd gens do not need a block. Only reason to go with any type of block is if you purely wanted some height.

As for the steering brace, I've seen a few that bind up so bad when the suspension is flexed, that they cause the sector shaft to bind up causing no steering at all. There's been a few broken bearings on the ones that tie the front frame rails together. A buddy in PA made one that attaches only to the driver's side framerail. Seems to be holding up good so far, so I may get something like that. I can see a huge benefit on the road, but when the suspension is bound up, that bearing puts so much lateral force on the shaft, it can either bind it up or the bearing can break.

Fact! There are quite a few steering braces for 3rd gens and by far, the beefiest one out there is the PSC. They aren't flimsy, have great mounting points there is a good reason why so many offroaders run them.... they're beefcake.

The other option for the rear is a shackle flip. I've heard that if you do that, though, the load-carrying capacity is greatly reduced. It would net you enough lift to reduce the block size to maybe 2", but gain you at least that in overall lift. I don't see a problem if the truck would never see more than about 1000lbs. in the bed, or a trailer with a tounge weight of about 500 or less. I wouldn't recommend hauling a 5th wheel with it, though.

If anything, just do the block. No reason to cut corners even is cost is a concern. Spend the $20-40 for some blocks.

Man that's a killer setup!

Are you running limiting straps? Are those the Carli springs? What about the shock towers-stock or aftermarket?

Thanks
-Chris

Thanks! It's a heap of fun taking out into the desert and cutting your own trail!

Yes, I am running limiting straps. This was during the install and it wasn't 100% complete when the picture was taken. Here is my setup

Thuren towers with King 2.5 with resi's, valved at Stage 6. Carli coils, trackbar, arms, diff cover and rear leafs. 08+ steering upgrade with new pitman arm, PSC steering brace and Von Heimer front light bar with 4 Hella 4000's converted to 55w HID. There are plenty of other things on the truck but that's all of what the front end has done to it.

 

[jason]

I see Kore doesn't even taylor to the 2nd gen's all that much. The recon is about as far up the line as you can go. This is all on a '98, too. Things are a little bit different than a 3rd gen. It would have been nice to have a flat spring perch. Not sure why they don't, as I can't think of any reason NOT to have one.

As far as Carli and Kore go, maybe the frames on the 3rd gens are a bit more friendly to off road abuse (jumping, high-speed suspension action, etc.) than one on a 2nd gen. It doesn't really concern me, though, as this truck is not being built, nor did I ever intend to put it through such. At least on mine, the factory link brackets on the frame don't seem suitable enough to withstand that for any given time.

 

[angusdevil]

I see Kore doesn't even taylor to the 2nd gen's all that much. The recon is about as far up the line as you can go. This is all on a '98, too. Things are a little bit different than a 3rd gen. It would have been nice to have a flat spring perch. Not sure why they don't, as I can't think of any reason NOT to have one.

As far as Carli and Kore go, maybe the frames on the 3rd gens are a bit more friendly to off road abuse (jumping, high-speed suspension action, etc.) than one on a 2nd gen. It doesn't really concern me, though, as this truck is not being built, nor did I ever intend to put it through such. At least on mine, the factory link brackets on the frame don't seem suitable enough to withstand that for any given time.

The C-frames are a pain and the best you can do for it is to box it in key places starting out or just box the entire thing. It's a pain but lots of people have done it before.

If you are going to be doing some modding, just put on some new spring perches so you don't have to deal with the curved ones. A lot of the 2nd desiel guys will run a 3rd gen hemi coil in order to get a coil in that fits that still gives a great spring rate.

 

[Deleted member 12023]

The C-frames are a pain and the best you can do for it is to box it in key places starting out or just box the entire thing. It's a pain but lots of people have done it before.

If you are going to be doing some modding, just put on some new spring perches so you don't have to deal with the curved ones. A lot of the 2nd desiel guys will run a 3rd gen hemi coil in order to get a coil in that fits that still gives a great spring rate.

Do you know of any online resources documenting the frame boxing?

Do the Hemi coils add any lift, or just a softer spring rate on a 2nd gen?

I have been wondering if it is possible to switch to 3rd gen leaf springs and flat perches, in order to eliminate the block. I guess you would still need to do something about the spring rate in the rear as well. Possibly remove the overload spring.

The Carli started package isn't really too bad of a price ($1375) when you start looking at other options. It uses the same coils and leaf pack as the higher end kits, just different shocks and less extras. That may be a good option as well. Plus it comes with bilstein 5100's.

 

[jason]

The C-frames are a pain and the best you can do for it is to box it in key places starting out or just box the entire thing. It's a pain but lots of people have done it before.

If you are going to be doing some modding, just put on some new spring perches so you don't have to deal with the curved ones. A lot of the 2nd desiel guys will run a 3rd gen hemi coil in order to get a coil in that fits that still gives a great spring rate.

This frame is boxed from the front, until about 2' behind the cab. Then it's C-channel from there back. Not sure why they stopped there, as that seems like a critical point on the truck.

I may go with new spring perches, if I decide to pick up the dana 70 that's a few miles from my house. Still not sure yet on that one, though. If I do, it's getting an ARB locker and some 4.56 gears plus a complete rebuild. I'd really like to have a dana 80 from a single wheel truck, but a 70 will be fine I think (plus it will give me a few CM's on ground clearance). Not only that, but nobody makes 4.56 gears for an 80. I think the closest ratio is a 4.63 or something like that.

Not really related to the suspension, but I did tear the door panels off to put some sound deadner material on. My '01 is twice as loud with the hood open as this '98 is. But the '01 is almost 3x quieter in the cab. Not sure why, it just is (could be the fact that there's a giant hole in the floor where the shifter comes through). I went with accumat on the doors. I picked up a box of 38 sq. ft. for the doors and headliner area, and 20 sq. ft. of dynamat for the floor (behind the dash to the back window). I know I'll need more dynamat, but this should get me close for now (not to mention, dynamat is expensive stuff!!!). I can see where the noise from the doors would come. There's 4 giant holes on the inner door skin with nothing to block road noise but some crappy jute padding strips. I will hopefully be able to get some new weather stripping in, along with a vinyl floor and new jute padding. My new headliner is waiting in storage, so as soon as I get ready to put it in, the roof will get done. I'm also going to take the shift console out and double-layer the sound deading material. I want this cab QUIET. It should also help out with the insulating properties as well.

Tried to mount the turbo today, but I have to clock the center section a few degrees so it lines up with the oil supply/return lines. I need to drill out the manifold as well, because 2 of the holes on the turbo and manifold are threaded. I'll run a bolt through then put a nut on the bottom for extra measure. Should be a screamer when I get it mounted up. I'll take some pics of the progress so far. The flange is welded on my downpipe as well, so it will look like it came from the factory this way.

 

[jason]

So it's been a while, and lots of work done. Nothing really "expedition" yet about it, but at least the drivetrain is solid.

1. The axles got full rebuilds with 3.73 gears. An ARB is for sure going in the front, not sure about the rear yet. Contemplating between a limited slip or another ARB.

2. The transmission got a full rebuild. Converted from a 2wd to 4wd with a cast iron rear housing, fully splined mainshaft, new input shaft and all the other rebiuld parts.

3. The original 241DHD transfer case was super expensive to get rebuilt. Like $1500+. I found a company that rebuilds the bigger NV271's for a better price and put it in. TIGHT fit, and some clearancing was needed on the floorboard, as well as some clearancing on the frame. The rear got a ford-style flange, eliminating the slip yoke.

4. Both driveshafts got rebuilt and high-speed balanced. Seems good up to 65. Haven't had them over that yet, but they feel smooth as glass.

5. I put a borgeson box and steering shaft in, because both of the old units were junk. The entire brake and steering systems got new parts because, you guessed it, they were wore out! Box, pump, shaft, column, the whole works.

6. My old dash cracked horribly when I tried to replace my evaporator core. So I ordered a new replacement from Geno's garage. Nice piece, but it does require some trimming. Took about 4 hours to get it completely fitting right. But no more cracks, and it's black. I like black for interior pieces.

7. Cut off the old bumper brackets, and had a buddy make some out of 1/2" plate. Future plans may include a winch, so now they are more than strong enough to support one.

Old ones:

New ones. The holes weren't drilled yet, and the rust is knocked off now:

I was planning to do some stuff this past year to get it ready for a few weekend trips, but things kept popping up. Hopefully this year I can get it out, and make a few more changes. I want to ditch the dual wheels, just not sure which direction I want to go. A flatbed like 1speed, or a single wheel bed. I'm leaning towards the latter, because it offers better protection/storage for gear. I do like those pop-up tents, though. Maybe I could graft one onto the top of the bed somehow, and use the space below for storage.

Lots of work, but it seems to be somewhat done for now!

Edit: Forgot to add that I picked up a set of edelbrock remote reservoir shocks for the front. They were made for a 2-3" lift application, which will go perfect with a set of 2.5" lift coils. I'm not sure how they compare to bilsteins, but I hope they are close. These were super cheap from a buddy, and I couldn't pass them up. I need to get a set of stud conversion mounts. Something like what JKE sells. The last thing for the front was some swaybar end links, which I got from Maxx Link. They look nice, and only have 1 moving part instead of 2. Hopefully they last a long time, and don't rot away like my old ones. With harsher environments comes the need for tougher parts. At least I think, anyway.

One more note for dodge owners. I had my headlight switch melt into a blob of plastic because of the inferior factory design. The ideal solution is to install a relay to take the load off the switch itself. I picked up a sport headlight conversion harness for mine, which has a relay for each bulb. Looks good, I just need to find a set of the quad-light sport housings for the install. Not only is it safer, but having 4 bulbs instead of two should help the visibility at night on the trail. I have some Hella lights for the bumper to install, as soon as I get some brackets fabbed up for it. I hope these will be enough for lighting duties. I see a lot of expedition vehicles with WAY more lights than I have. I guess the only real way to tell is to get out and try them out.

 

[TKSC01]

Sweet ride

Jason-great truck, I had an 01 3500 with the 24v I loved it, it would pull a factory building up the side of the Grand Canyon and get 24 MPG doing it! I love the utility of vehicles so I ran an onboard air set up. I got the compressor plate from Kilby, ran a York 210 down to two seperate 5gal air tanks. I stripped them out of an old tractor cab I had. They mount beautifully up under the bed, in front of the wheels but behind the cab. I then piped both tanks back to the rear and ran a 50' hose reel out of the back of the bed. It ran like a dream and could run air tools all day long. Just thought I would pass it along.

 

[poriggity]

Unfortunately Kilby recently sold the business, but I think it is going to be continued on by someone.. I don't know when, or if you can buy the parts at this point, but the Kilby setup is the BEST. I am a little biased, as I worked for him for a couple of years, and he's an awesome guy.. That being said, I also have the Kilby bracket/compressor on my 3rd gen, but I have yet to get around to plumbing it... I was the test dummy for the 3rd gen trucks, since I had one, and was working for him at the time, and by the time we got the bracket and compressor all bolted up, we were too lazy to take it all back off, so he left it there, and told me to consider it a raise Nice huh? Anyway.. To make a long story even longer, I say, if you want to get some utility out of the truck, run the Kilby OBA, if you can find it.
Scott

 

[TKSC01]

Unfortunately Kilby recently sold the business, but I think it is going to be continued on by someone.. I don't know when, or if you can buy the parts at this point, but the Kilby setup is the BEST. I am a little biased, as I worked for him for a couple of years, and he's an awesome guy.. That being said, I also have the Kilby bracket/compressor on my 3rd gen, but I have yet to get around to plumbing it... I was the test dummy for the 3rd gen trucks, since I had one, and was working for him at the time, and by the time we got the bracket and compressor all bolted up, we were too lazy to take it all back off, so he left it there, and told me to consider it a raise Nice huh? Anyway.. To make a long story even longer, I say, if you want to get some utility out of the truck, run the Kilby OBA, if you can find it.
Scott

Lucky you, in total I purchased 4 kits from Kilby-ALL GREAT! I have the Broncoair set up on my bronco now and it is awesome as well. I purchased my first bronco air kit from Kilby. Sad/glad to hear he sold it IF that is what HE wanted! He's an awesome dude! He'll resurface...they all do!

 

[jason]

I wanted to run a kilby setup, but they don't make a bracket for the 12 valves. The 24 valve they do, not sure why the 12er's got omitted. I would LOVE to have an engine-driven compressor, mainly because the electric ones don't flow enough CFM. The Oasis ones do, but they are upwards of a $1000. Still, I think an engine-driven one can deliver around 12, if I'm not mistaken. Just think, you could paint the truck using it's compressor.