Self Recovery on a frozen lake

norshor

Observer
This is a long shot here, but I need some help. I spend quite a bit of time, during our long winters, out icefishing. Being that I have a fully equipped rig for self-recovery on land, I keep trying to figure out how to get myself unstuck if I do get buried on the lake by alone. I have recovered quite a few other rigs this season so far. It's just amazing how people will find the one guy with a winch on the entire lake, and assume that they would prefer to get them out, than to fish at that moment:wings: Not that I mind that much. It's a good way to promote safe recovery, and promote overlanding.

The problem this year is slush. We got 2 feet of snow on top of a foot or so of ice. That caused the ice to sink, water to come up, and the slush to form. I have hit spots where I drop into a foot of slush thru 2 or 3 inches of ice with no warning. There is still a good foot and a half or 2 good feet of ice underneath. (although I have not stopped to check:) ) So the vehicle has to drag itself until I can find solid ice again, maintaining momentum in order to pop up onto the next shelf of good ice. It will get the heart pumping!

Lot's of rigs are getting stuck. When you get into this stuff, traction sand is useless as is kitty litter. It's standing water with chunks of ice mixed in. Shoveling is an incredible amount of work, and sometimes worthless. Getting another rig out there to anchor to with my winch is not much of an option because I'd be hard pressed to get someone else to pull ahead of me in the stuff that just stopped my rig so I can hook a winchline. A Pullpal would work, IF there was enough snow on top, but that is not the case.

So, I keep trying to figure out how I could drill a hole in the ice, anchor a bar or hook of some kind, hook my snatchblock up, and pull myself off. I have thought about drilling 2 holes a foot or so apart (they are 8" holes) and looping a treesaver to attach a shackle and a block to. The problem is that the ice is a good 2 and a half feet thick, and that water is cold. I also thought about dropping a chunk of barstock, or pipe down the hole with the sling attached in the middle and a light rope on one end. That way I could pull straight on with it, and when finished, loosen the tension from the center, and pull the one end out of the ice. I have no idea how thick/strong that bar would have to be.

So there, that's my late-night rant. Any ideas?
 
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Chris85xlt

Adventurer
i've never experienced anything like u mentioned before but how about just pounding some long thick steel rods or rebars into the ice at an angle and hook the winch cable to it?
maybe have something like a 2 feet long by 3/4" thick rod. Then weld a plate to the top for where u can strike the hammer and another plate below so u can hammer the rod out of the ground.
have like 3-4 of these to link up for those more serious stucks
 

Desolation

Adventurer
Never done this but my dear grandmother had a story about getting a T, as in model, stuck on/in the ice she described drilling I would guess 1" holes (I'm thinking brace and bit) Anyway she told of drilling 4 holes laid back slightly away from the T and lashing oak stays stuck in the holes in the ice togeather, then a block an tackle to the T...

Dewalt 18V drill 1" wood auger bit.
Steel bars with heavy washers welded to them so thy can't just slip through the Ice.
Some rope to tie the bars togeather and some wood twist stays to twist tension the stakes and you are as good to pull as the ice will let you.

Like I said I have never tried this though I have used old axles driven into the ground this way quite successfully as winch anchors.
 

matt s

Explorer
I would think something like a folding boat anchor. Similar to a molly bolt for sheetrock but of course on a very large scale. Drop it through the 8 inch hole folded and the arms drop out and you can then pull. Afterwards drop the anchor down and fold up the arms (you may want some sort of cord to pull on them to keep your arms dry) and pull it out.

Better yet if you can find an actual cast boat anchor that fits through an 8 inch hole when folded but not when deployed....
 

brianjwilson

Some sort of lost...
How about drilling a small hole just big enough to stick your arm in... Then taking a strong piece of metal tube or cast piece like a 48" hi-lift (just the long portion with holes in it), hooking the winch line to the center of it, dropping it down the hole and pulling it back up so the 48" long handle is horizontal under the ice? Keep the line tight and winch out (shouldn't take much force I wouldn't think). Once you are unstuck, stick your arm down though the ice, grab the handle/tube on one side of the winch line, lower the winch line and allow the tube/handle to become vertical and pull it back up.
Does that make sense?
Picture tying a piece of string around the middle of a pencil, dropping it though a hole in a piece of paper and pulling up on it. Should be simple and effective.

Sorry for the stupid paint drawings.
Dropping it in.
icerecovery2.gif

Winching out.
icerecovery.gif

No need for fancy tools, just keep it simple.
 
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norshor

Observer
Brian, that's what I am thinking about doing. It's going to be tough to drill through what could be 3' of ice with anything other than a power auger, and that's 8". I like the idea of having a smaller hole to reduce bending on the bar, but I don't think it is possible. Instead of reaching down the hole to get it, I could just tie a smaller rope to one end and pull it straight up. And the paint drawing got the point across perfectly.
As for anchoring multiple bars or "stakes", I would really need to know how to equalize them. I thought about the boat anchor, I just want this to have as few moving part as possible.
Thanks for all the advice!! I really didn't expect this many responses on such an obscure subject so quickly! Maybe this will be helpful to someone else, who knows?
 

skysix

Adventurer
Ice Anchors

You could have fabbed up a couple of ice anchors like the climbers use - supersize using 1.5 to 2" drill pipe - but they'd need a powered auger to drive them.

The cordless 1" bit / rod idea is a good one - but I'd set up a "V" of 7 anchors, at a 30-45 degree angle away from the center and at a 30 degree angle to the ice, then use 2 short chains (custom made say 6' long each with chain hooks at both ends) to connect the top of the middle (#4) to the base of #3 and #5, and from the top of #3 & #5 to the base of #2 and #6, and from the top of #2 and #6 to the base of #1 and #7. Check out the army engineers field manual for anchor systems for diagrams.

Weld 3 links of chain to the top and about a foot down from the top (top of ice level) of each rod and sharpen the tip. An axel works well (but is heavy) as it can be driven into the hole if it is slightly smaller than the rod (the ideal). DO NOT try to hammer it in - will not only be hard but will fracture the ice all around it and make that area of ice not only weaker but incapable of supporting as much tension on the anchor. And use a line 'blanket' and stay at 90degrees to the line and far away from the truck in case there are "issues" with the cable or the ice.

I'd also use at LEAST a 2:1 pulley system, 3:1 would be better. There is HUGE drag getting through ice/slush and vertically up what is essentially a 12" to 18" curb. And wear AT LEAST a full floater suit with a neoprene hat and gloves in a pocket. Plus carry ice-picks for personal self rescue if you fall through (check out the Ice Rescue course at Dive Rescue International in Colorado (no affiliation).

IceRescue2_263488_7.jpg
 
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skysix

Adventurer
How about drilling a small hole just big enough to stick your arm in... Then taking a strong piece of metal tube or cast piece like a 48" hi-lift (just the long portion with holes in it), hooking the winch line to the center of it, dropping it down the hole and pulling it back up so the 48" long handle is horizontal under the ice? Keep the line tight and winch out (shouldn't take much force I wouldn't think). Once you are unstuck, stick your arm down though the ice, grab the handle/tube on one side of the winch line, lower the winch line and allow the tube/handle to become vertical and pull it back up.
Does that make sense?
Picture tying a piece of string around the middle of a pencil, dropping it though a hole in a piece of paper and pulling up on it. Should be simple and effective.

Sorry for the stupid paint drawings.
Dropping it in.
icerecovery2.gif

Winching out.
icerecovery.gif

No need for fancy tools, just keep it simple.

I'd be hesitant about this method - nice simple idea and cheap, but will exert nasty forces on the ice in its weakest direction - tension. Winching up and at the same time vehicle loading down as it tries to climb up and out of the hole. Will force the ice into a "S" shape between the hole and the truck which if far apart can be OK but don't do it close...

Also only works if ice and slush/snow is thin enough. If the base ice is 12-14" (minimum safe depth for clear ice and a 8000-12000# truck) and there's another foot of slushy overflow on top of that you'll be wet to the shoulder. Any more than that and you can't reach the anchor pipe to recover it as described.

Bear in mind my experience is in areas with 8 months of ice, 20-40 below temps and 3-4 months of useable iceroads on 4-6' thick ice... and we get 8" to 3' of "overflow" every spring...So my comments may not apply to your situation and climate.

Check out RTL transport in Yellowknife (the original Canadian Ice Road Builders - they do recoveries of huge equipment through the ice every year...the early season 'scouts' also add "whiskers" to vehicles so if they fall through they only go as far down as the frame - kind of the same depth you are describing. Maybe shoot them an email and ask how they get those guys out if the ice is to weak for a tundra buggy or a Cat - AND if the BV-206 is unavailable....

n602140480_3284577_9010.jpg


n602140480_3284520_9651.jpg
 
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HINO SG

Adventurer
So, I keep trying to figure out how I could drill a hole in the ice, anchor a bar

looks like a typo. you mean you were out fishing and got stuck on the ice so you went down to the Anchor Bar?

been there, done that. tough situation to be in, I feel for you. :elkgrin:
 
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here4fun

Observer
As long as the ice and snow combination is of a suitable thickness, you may want to consider a Pull-Pal with a winch, come-along or hi-lift jack in pulling configuration. Before use, you will want to attach a manual recovery line to the device in case it manages to make it's way through the ice pack. One risk is that it may open a seam in the ice during use that could present a danger to others later.

Just a thought....
 

Rando

Explorer
What we use in the Antarctic is a Kovacs drill (everyone caries one to check ice thickness) and either the bar trick or if the ice is super thick, a V-thread. The Kovacs drills about a 2 inch diameter hole and can either be hand or power drill operated. The standard bit is 1 meter long but you can add more bits (called 'flights') end to end if the ice is thicker. Usually if the ice is more than one flight thick it is easier to drill a V-thread. You drill 1 hole at 30 - 45 degree angle perpendicular to the direction of pull. You then drill a second hole at the reciprocal angle about 50cm away that intersects the first hole near the bottom of the hole (this can be a little tricky!). Thread a piece of cord down the first hole, put the drill down the second hole and spin it to grab the cord (or use a long wire hook) and pull the cord back to the top. You can then attach a suitably thick piece of webbing or rope to the cord to pull through the v-thread.

Another super quick options if the loads are not going to be huge is two (or more) ice screws, well equalized:
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/climb/ice-protection/express-ice-screws

If you do use ice screws, angle them slightly towards the direction of pull.
 

dustboy

Explorer
Never done this but my dear grandmother had a story about getting a T, as in model, stuck on/in the ice she described drilling I would guess 1" holes ...

Your grandmother is awesome. Here we are with our fancy 4x4s and winches, and she got herself unstuck with some old fashioned ingenuity and elbow grease.
 

scottishpinz

Adventurer
What about a few ice screws linked together? They hold better than you might think!
 

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The Adam Blaster

Expedition Leader
Is there a cheap source for the ice screws?
I like that idea so far, but it would be problematic if he's dealing with a foot of slush on top of the ice surface.
 

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