Supplement Question: Aerobic and Anaerobic

[Scott Brady]

I have stepped up my lifting and exercise efforts from my typical routine (which was just to maintain baseline fitness for hiking and exploration, pulling winch cable, etc.), and a lot has changed since my days weight lifting as a defensive end.

As with any activity, there are those who have learned what works, and can separate the whey from the hype. . .

If your exercise routine included 1.5 hours of heavy lifting 4 days per week and 2-3 hours of hard mtn. bike riding or trekking three days per week, what adjustments would you make to your supplement routine.

Currently, I am keeping it simple, but know that nutrition and supplements can make a huge difference in gains and recovery.

Pre-workout: Small protein bar, glass of water and a scoop of a pre-workout powder that contains creatine, arginine and amino acids.

During workout: Water

Post-workout: Essentials Multi-vitamin for men (from High Health stores), Met-Rx Original Meal Replacement Shake and a protein bar. More water.

For the rest of the day, it is my typical diet, though I am drinking a lot more water now. Lots of protein and carbs and the occasional vegetable.

Primary exercise goals are to get back into mountain climbing shape (think Rainier) it has been almost two years since I climbed a 14,000 tall mountain, improve core strength and get ready for a few 24 hour mtn. bike races.

Any advice? What works for you?

Thanks

[spressomon]

Not an answer to your question Scott but an FWIW. I used to include free weights in my workout regiment. However a couple years ago a good friend and professional exercise trainer converted me to Marv Marinovich's ProBodX work out regiment: I've never looked back nor regretted this decision. In fact on my "off" ProBodX days I find I crave the routine; even after 2-years! I've found PBX has increased my balance, muscle tone and overall flexibility for real life situations including but not limited to: Hunting, recovery events, hiking, snow/ice, etc.

I supplement my ProBodX routine with cardio exercise and/or activities that include concentrated and strategic aerobic and anaerobic training.

I also utilize Hammer Nutrition energy and recovery products exclusively. Certainly there are many category products to select from on the market today but I've found the Hammer products to be very effective in my body at various pre, event and post/recovery cycles.

Dan

[RusM]

I have stepped up my lifting and exercise efforts from my typical routine (which was just to maintain baseline fitness for hiking and exploration, pulling winch cable, etc.), and a lot has changed since my days weight lifting as a defensive end.- Probably not for the better.

As with any activity, there are those who have learned what works, and can separate the whey from the hype. . .

If your exercise routine included 1.5 hours of heavy lifting 4 days per week and 2-3 hours of hard mtn. bike riding or trekking three days per week, what adjustments would you make to your supplement routine.

Currently, I am keeping it simple, but know that nutrition and supplements can make a huge difference in gains and recovery.

Pre-workout: Small protein bar, glass of water and a scoop of a pre-workout powder that contains creatine, arginine and amino acids. -Granola, 1 slice bread 1T Jam/peanut butter, Zone bar, Fruit and peanut butter, fruit and nuts.

During workout: Water -Gatorade (or equivalent) and 1 scoop protein.

Post-workout: Essentials Multi-vitamin for men (from High Health stores), Met-Rx Original Meal Replacement Shake and a protein bar. More water. -Cottage cheese and fruit, chocolate milk and protein, fruit and nuts, etc...

For the rest of the day, it is my typical diet, though I am drinking a lot more water now. Lots of protein and carbs and the occasional vegetable.

Primary exercise goals are to get back into mountain climbing shape (think Rainier) it has been almost two years since I climbed a 14,000 tall mountain, improve core strength and get ready for a few 24 hour mtn. bike races.

Any advice? What works for you?

Thanks

The only stuff that really works is illegal. Unless you are strongly susceptible to the placebo effect, in which case the results you get will be better the more money you spend.
Eating right, getting lots of quality rest and quality training are where you will get your best results. If you really want to blow some cash on some supplements get some ZMA, a multivitamin, and some waxy maize to mix with your protein to sip on during your workout. Creatine works too, but you have to decide if the bloat is worth the minor strength gains.

One more thing, if you decide to do crossfit, DON"T DRINK THE KOOLAIDE! Crossfit is cool, but it is just another program among many that work just as effectively.

[Hilldweller]

Individual aminos don't do their tricks if you ingest them with other aminos; so if you're trying to get the cardio benefit from your arginine, it's likely being mitigated or eliminated by your protein bar.

I liked NO-Xplode before my weight session with some branched-chain aminos after, leading into cardio. You want to prevent your body from any catabolism on the big muscle groups.

Ketostix might be a good investment if you're eating that much protein too; it's one thing to maintain a positive nitrogen balance and another to become ketonic.

Push the fiber, decrease transit time. Water-soluble vitamins twice daily. Watch your electrolytes.

And no flat bench-presses. Dang-it, but heavy exercises that limit your joints' ability to go through a natural range of motion will tear you up ---- I'm saying this as a guy who used to be able to bench press 550 (with a lift-off) and now has trouble grabbing a seatbelt without my shoulder dislocating.

I had Professor Hyman Mittleberg for Nutrition; he was awesome. He was doing sports nutrition for the Olympic team back then. I think he still teaches though.

[Mr. Leary]

For strength training, there is no substitute for the circuit. As a frequent hiker and occassional mountian climber, I can add that cardio is the single biggest benefit I can see while I'm out there. Thats not saying there aren't specific exercises you need to strenthen forearms for climbing. Nothing comes close to preparing by actually doing it. For example, when I'm getting ready for a big hike, I get on the tread mill with my loaded pack and walk at a 10% incline for a few miles. I try to immitate conditions as closely as I can while training. I use the same boots, socks, outfits I will be hiking in as often as can be allowed for training... has the added benefit of "testing" your equipment / packing strategy for problems.

I hike in Cali-stan every year with my brother at altitude. It is always a shock to your system to be thrust into an oxygen low environment. The best ways I have found to combat this is cardio, cardio, cardio... and hydration techniques....

...but you know all of this...

... as far as supplements, I can recommend a product called "Muscle Milk" and any generic post surgery vitamin regimen. The MM in Chocolate flavor tastes like NesQuick, and also has a number of vitamins that aid in recovery. The post surgery vitamins beef your immune system and also tend to be packed with calcium, which is vital to any routine where you will be adding any muscle mass. If you don't get lots of calcium, the protein flooded muscles will leach calcium from your bones. Weak bones is bad, um-kay!

Hope this helps!

EDIT: Oh yeah! Glucosamine and Chondrotin. I have collected lots of joint injuries over the years and regular doses of these help "grease the wheels" so to speak!

[Scott Brady]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I do not have many illusions of supplements being "magic", but I have found good results with high-quality multi-vitamins and high-quality protein shakes. What I am particularly curious about would be any post-workout supplements or foods, etc. that will aid with recovery. If there is nothing, and any money spent will be a waste, that would be great to know too.

What is your list?

Pre-workout:
Post-workout:

[stevenmd]

Some good advice here.

Supplements:
Mr. Leary is dead-on with Glucosamine and Chondrotin. Your joints will thank you in the years to come. Add ZMA before you go to bed.

Protein bars are OK if you have nothing else at your disposal. They are good to use during strenuous days of hiking due to their high calories but you have to remember that protein bars are nothing more than candy bars with protein added.

Stop using Met-Rx. It is crap compared to the advancements made in that area. Optimum Nutrition's Platinum Hydro Whey is already processed for immediate absorption. The body doesn't have to break it down for absorption. It is an excellent protein to use immediately following exercise.

For immediately upon waking and an hour before bed it is good to use a blend of proteins. There are plenty of powders out there with 6-10 different types of protein. Optimum Nutrition and BSN are just two examples.

For right before exercise, I suggest 1/2 serving of the Platinum Hydro Whey.

Stay away from Muscle Milk. It may taste good but it is made for high school kids who are hard gainers.

For during exercise, good old water works just fine to replenish what you lost. For more extreme circumstance, use a 50/50 mix of water and Pedialyte (yeah, the children's stuff). There is a reason why rockstars can party so hard all night and then perform flawlessly the next day.

Mix in glutamine and amino acids with the shake following a workout. Your GH levels will increase. I also suggest some type of N.O. booster.

But, other than the post workout shake, you could really get all you need by eating correctly. Eat small meals every 3 hours. It takes your body 2.7 hours to digest a meal. By eating every 3 hours you constantly stimulate your metablism. It takes time to develop this routine. If you feel too full to eat so often, lessen the portions you eat. If you feel tired due to less calories, add some ginseng capsule in the morning and early afternoon.

A note on creatine: it bloats some people and others it does not. I don't recommend taking it unless you really need to gain muscle or strength for a particular outing/adventure.

As someone who has taken almost everything under the sun, don't waste your time on other stuff unless you have a specific goal in mind. For general health and "adventure performance", everything I listed will suit you just fine.

For exercise:
Nothing beats strength training. Nothing. You burn more calories, etc.

The problem with hiking and biking in the real world is that you are not moving constantly. Sure, you are "moving" but your body is not working constantly.

You must change your routine every 30-45 days, sometime more often. You must continually "shock" your body. You'd be surprised how easy our bodies adapt to stress. If you cannot come up with a routine on your own, try P90X. I have friends who have completed the program and it works. I am thinking of trying it myself to get these past few pounds off.

During Suzi's last pregnancy I went from 200 to 240 (hey, I couldn't her eat that ice cream alone!). One year later I am 214. I just turned 40 and I can bench 315 and ride the exercise bike at the gym full blast for an hour and still have energy to spare.

My $0.03...

[Flounder]

Supplements are to me, like spackle I use to fill in the cracks in my diet. The worse my diet gets, the more I rely on supplements and supplements will never be as good as a proper diet. As an example, I can take antioxidant supplements to aid recovery, but I'd prefer to eat a few blue berries or acai berries instead. I can suck down some wallpaper paste protein goo, or I can eat lean chicken instead.

I have found that my best recovery comes from whole foods in a well thought out balance. There was a time when I could log 300 mile bike weeks on powdered doughnuts and beer, but as I age, I find diet plays a big role in my recovery and development. In fact, in 2005 I landed in the hospital for 4 days because I let my diet and supplemental diet attention laps and I suffered a nasty atrial fibrillation accompanied by a seizure, oh...and I pee'd my pants for good measure. This as an uber fit road racer who just forgot to eat his Wheaties, more or less. Let that be a lesson to you about watching what you eat and how it fits into a fitness regime.

My former coach was the Olympic Coaching Chairperson for a few years. She sends me loads of nutritional studies. One that recently caught my attention was a collection of studies, all claiming that glucosemine and condroitin have never really been found to substantially or even measurably promote joint health. I've gone bumb knees and was really hoping for a boost there. Not to be.

[Flounder]

By the way, 29er on these forums recently informed me of another study suggesting that athletes who maintain constant positive levels of hydration as well as an optimal (limited) level of daily calories, often produce maximum levels of growth hormone. Drink and be hungry for optimal GH levels. I can relate to that concept as it's really worked for me in years past. Not fun, but.....

[Maddmatt]

I'm cutting and pasting Stephen's advice for my own use - and adding that daily Glucosamine and Chrondroitin supplements have made a big difference in my life - my knees are much happier much more of the time.