Do you feel the need to have a weapon when camping

[MOguy]

Just to put in an international perspective, I live in Australia and have grown up with a rifle and hunting since I could walk.

I do not carry a weapon on me, because it's illegal and if it wasn't I see no reason to. As for over landing, I've done my share and this country is a big place I have seen no necessity to carry a gun. I honestly do not understand the need for a gun for self protection, but maybe it's a cultural thing.


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and violent crime esp sexually assault (in the US it is called rape) has gone up in Australia after the new gun laws.

 

[MOguy]

I can agree with carrying a rifle or shotgun where the population density is less than the maximum range of the weapon, on average. My point here is that along with the individual right to carry the weapon is other folks right to be safe from that weapon. Does this seem extreme or do I just have to trust you? When you consider that nearly half of the US population will suffer from some mental illness in their lifetime, I don't think it is unreasonable. This is why I also support psychological testing for anyone wishing to possess firearms. Mind you, the 46.4% of us who will suffer a mental illness should not automatically disqualify the individual. Some of these illnesses are quite mild. Actually, only 6% will suffer from extreme mental illness. But this leave a lot of grey area of the grey matter. Sorry, couldn't help myself. How stable should an individual be to be permitted to possess a firearm? I would even say, how mature should an individual be? For the safety of you and yours, shouldn't the bar be set high? I mean, we're not talking about hammers, reciprocating saws, or lathes, we're talking about guns. All these items have purpose, but to conflate one with another is a fallacy. While they may be used for purposes other than their primary purpose, they should be considered on that basis. We all know what the primary purpose of these items are. I think the error comes in thinking that the handgun's primary purpose is for self defense. I think it is to kill another human being and it should be judged and regulated from this point. To say it is for self defense is extremely subjective, and here's why...
Consider self defense. You are the good guy and the person you have to shoot is the bad guy. Says you. In a black and white scenario, this may be true. But consider how many black and white scenarios you will encounter. Here, things get grey again. You're most always going to think you are in the right, it's human nature. Just as no one reading this would place themselves in that 46.4% of crazies, well over half (depending on what specifically is being evaluated) consider themselves above average. Who here is willing to say they are average or even below average in their job performance, academic abilities, driving skills (80% of us consider ourselves above average), ability to get along with others (25% rate themselves in the top 1%). The numbers are actually comical. It goes by many terms. I like "The Lake Wobegon effect"; where all the children are above average.
It may seem like I am off on a tangent but there is purpose. I shouldn't have to trust you and your psychological baggage and you shouldn't have to trust me and my psychological baggage. There should be standard testing. We cannot judge this for ourselves. Why? Because we all suffer from "Bias Blind Spot". We are the standard by which all others should be judged. And that's just plain crazy.

and if 46% may suffer and they fear their gun rights might be lost how many will avoid treatment so they don't loose their rights?

 

[TheBuddyExpedition]

But I think you simply fail to see my point about an individual's perceived assessment of threat.

Life is rife with perceived dangers, but they are often unique to the individual. Nearly everyone in my family dies of cancer or diabetes. None, throughout as many generations as I know of, have died due to a violent encounter that would have been assuaged by a gun.

My personal pursuits put me in line with a number of threats that could end my life. Low on the list is a violent encounter. High on the list are tumors, diabetes and health issues. It's in my interest to guard against those threats first, as they are VERY REAL. Same for many people. Am I as likely to die as a result of a violent encounter? No.

You fail to see that some of us guard against the threats we feel are most real. Health issues, car crashes, and other life threatening instances simply rank as higher probabilities. Things simply not defended against with a weapon.

I could just as easily argue that your fear of violent encounter is statistically unwarranted, but that would only serve to disrespect YOUR feelings of self preservation. And I could go a step further assuming you are foolish by not pursuing the levels of personal health that I strive to achieve.

Slippery slope, eh?

I don't fear a violent encounter and I had a physical yesterday.
Everything is tight except my testosterone which is at 1600.....

So your assumption that I'm an over weight, paranoid scaredy cat us utter b.s.

If I had my laptop and not my phone I'd love to debate this with you but then you'd feel as though I don't respect your views, which I do. I just don't understand them.

Ps- not all ccw folks are compensating. ....really we're not, it's a tool or accessory like my watch and wallet.

Enjoy!

sent FROM HELL!!!

 

[Tonkatuff]

and violent crime esp sexually assault (in the US it is called rape) has gone up in Australia after the new gun laws.

Yeah our violent crime rate is five percent higher that your.

But I wouldn't swap our murder rate for yours which is 57 times higher.

I don't think you guys understand that even the most pro gun people I know ( farmers and hunters ) would not even consider repealing the semi auto ban and hand gun restrictions.

If you really wanted to go to the extent of carrying a weapon (loaded as some of you do) you would get just as much protection for you and your family against being killed by travelling 10kph slower when you drive and installing a roll cage in your 4x4. Both would statistically make your camping trip as safe as protecting yourself against a very small risk of violent crime.

And before you call me an anti gun nut, I had my semi auto license before the ban. And I still hold every firearm category of license except handgun and semi auto


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[k9lestat]

One of these kids is not like the one of these kids is doing his own thing.....I loved sesamie street.

Here is the problem as I see, some of those that don't support the second amendment are nuts. Some of those that do are nuts.

The root is fear. Fear of guns being out there. Fear of guns being taken away.

I support the second amendment. But I understand the other side of the coin.

Standardized test in my opinion is a sham. Everyone is different. Psychological issues differ from person to person.

Every vet, firefighter, EMT/paramedic and police if put in front a shrink would tagged as having PTSD. A lot of people that need help won't seek treatment because of FEAR. Fear of the label. Fear of a job loss. Fear of losing rights and privileges that are important to them.

But to someone who as never been regularly shooting hunting with his friends and family the majority of their lives doesn't understand it.

Someone who lives in an environment where are a negative force can not understand the person still believes in being ready to defend his neighbors and family against an unseen or unlikely foe.

Many gun culture people here have they carry every day. That scares people.

But as a cop I'll say this. It is your choice to be armed or not. To carry or not.

Out of 17 years on the job the only call I saw a dead armed victim was drug/gang related.

Oh by the way, I'm over weight have been all my life. Played football, served in the army, worked in a prison, a youth detention center and patrol/k9 handler. So this Fatboy as many miles on him. Play the health card if you want but not all fat people ride the scooter at Walmart.

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[Christophe Noel]

So your assumption that I'm an over weight, paranoid scaredy cat us utter b.s.

Ps- not all ccw folks are compensating. ....really we're not, it's a tool or accessory like my watch and wallet.

Okay - I never in a million years suggested anyone is over compensating or paranoid.

And who made any assumptions that you are overweight? I'm saying that people in general make very specific choices with regard to the things they feel may be a threat to their well being. Some choose to carry a weapon, but disregard their health. Some wear a seatbelt but make the poor choice to text and drive. These are choices made in response to an individual's perceived threats. It's why I wear as much motorcycle gear as I can fit on my person, because I stand a reasonably good chance of needing it. We all make these little elections to guard against various hazards.

This is why I haven't yet made the slightest suggestion that anyone should not carry. It's up to you.

 

[haven]

So, what was the OP asking about? Right, protection while camping. Maybe we should go back to the original topic.

 

[Scott Brady]

Christophe has a point. If people placed the same care to their physical health as they do their 2nd Amendment Rights, we would really save some lives.

I think the salient consideration is that we will all die from something, and it will most likely (statistically) not be from a violent crime. Should we not also address the stuff that will most likely kill us? Christophe spends his time and money staying healthy, exercising and eating well. He has dodged a few bullets from that alone. . . Something to think about.

Again, I carry every day for the .000002% chance that I can save my life or someone else's. I also enjoy firearms and shoot them recreationally. It all adds up for me- for others, it is not worth the hassle, expense or risk. . .

 

[k9lestat]

Hush I'm trying to eat my pizza. Fatboy gotta eat. Lol

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[MOguy]

Yeah our violent crime rate is five percent higher that your.

But I wouldn't swap our murder rate for yours which is 57 times higher.

I don't think you guys understand that even the most pro gun people I know ( farmers and hunters ) would not even consider repealing the semi auto ban and hand gun restrictions.

If you really wanted to go to the extent of carrying a weapon (loaded as some of you do) you would get just as much protection for you and your family against being killed by travelling 10kph slower when you drive and installing a roll cage in your 4x4. Both would statistically make your camping trip as safe as protecting yourself against a very small risk of violent crime.

And before you call me an anti gun nut, I had my semi auto license before the ban. And I still hold every firearm category of license except handgun and semi auto


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When comparing crime rate you have to understand the US uses arrests or people charged but not convicted. Most other countries only use convictions. That is why our crime rate appears as high as it does. Not sure how Australia figures crime rate.

There is a UN report out that does compare crime across the globe using the same standards for each nation. I can't find it now but it would be interesting to see how things compare if compared the same way. All other articles I can find right now are extremely biased and I wouldn't trust any of them.

 

[91AzXJ]

Here is my .02 worth. I live in a state where you are able to carry open, concealed, in body cavity etc without a CCW. I have also been in law enforcement and have very mixed emotions about gun control. I have weapons and do carry concealed more often than not because I have not been off the streets that long that I still run into individuals I've had dealings with. I don't carry all the time as I don't feel the need, it is based on where I'm going at the time. I will not go to a large public place like a mall unarmed as there are many individuals out there who wish to do harm to others as was witnessed yesterday in Tenn. I also have a firearm in my vehicle whenever I go camping and wheeling. It is a very personal decision but if the government decides to put restrictive controls on firearms, the people who wish to do us harm will still manage to get one and nobody else will have a means with which to protect themselves.

 

[Chazz Layne]

When comparing crime rate you have to understand the US uses arrests or people charged but not convicted. Most other countries only use convictions. That is why our crime rate appears as high as it does. Not sure how Australia figures crime rate.

You'd also have to factor in the states/cities with firearm bans and higher crime rates. Comparing the US as a whole gives a skewed picture.

 

[robert]

Demographics make a huge difference also. In over twenty years of EMS including in a decent sized city, I'd guess that better than ninety percent of the people who get shot, stabbed, beat up, etc. were doing something they shouldn't have been, they were somewhere they shouldn't have been, they were doing somebody they shouldn't have been, etc. In the US, if you're not involved in the drug/criminal scene or sleeping with someone else's wife or girlfriend your chances of getting shot are pretty low. The media, particularly in other countries it seems, like to point out the murder rates but honestly, most of the folks who get killed are not your average normal citizen. As was also pointed out, our reporting tends to be more accurate as well- it was shown a few years ago that England was skewing their reporting to the lesser of the crimes committed during a single incident, i.e. things like a break-in with a murder as only a break-in.

The issue is much more complex than simply access to firearms as evidence by the fact that firearms were much more prevalent previously in our history- it was entirely possible to order firearms through the mail (see Gun Control Act of 1968) and dynamite and some other blasting medias were as easy to buy as walking into your local hardware store. The shift in US morality is a discussion for another thread though.

 

[Tonkatuff]

I still stand by my point I do not see any necessity to carry a weapon camping and I would go as far to that that the idea would be not even be considered by every person I have travelled with in Australia.

Statistics or not I thing that the Idea of carrying a handgun or semi auto centre fire rifle has more to do with the U.S. Right to carry these kinds of weapons rather then the need to carry them.


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[Christophe Noel]

I still stand by my point I do not see any necessity to carry a weapon camping and I would go as far to that that the idea would be not even be considered by every person I have travelled with in Australia.

Statistics or not I thing that the Idea of carrying a handgun or semi auto centre fire rifle has more to do with the U.S. Right to carry these kinds of weapons rather then the need to carry them.

Americans don't tend to tackle this discussion head on, but rather at oblique angles that make it hard to understand the real reasons Americans feel so strongly one way or another. And this happens on both sides of the argument. Good examples include the anti-gun audience and their determination to ban "assault" weapons, when in reality most of the awful shootings as of late have been perpetrated with guns that don't fall within that narrow category. On the pro-gun side, gun advocates often reach for somewhat far fetched reasons for having their guns. Like the humorous zombie apocalypse, or more disturbing reasons like the slew of Texans arming themselves against an impending invasion from our federal government. Which is nuts.

The middle ground and rational thinking is hard to find at times and the stone throwing is rife between the two sides. It is a sad and polarizing topic, really. There are a few voices in this discussion I listen to most, and value. Scott Brady understands his need to carry falls a distant second to the fact he likes guns and just likes to carry. Fine enough. What a refreshing admission. He also has extensive training, which makes me feel more comfortable about his approach to this issue.

Again, it is a very important discussion and relevant to our community on ExPo. What makes it so is the intermixing of those who do carry and those who don't and how their individual rights and considerations might clash. I can tell you this much...I won't travel with some people because I know they carry and I don't know squat about their ability to use that weapon safely.