I heard the ride quality on the road isn't that great with the MTs. I do my fair share of time in the dirt, but also spend a lot of time on the interstate.
HMMWV double beadlocks wheels on a Ford Superduty
- Thread starter Bella PSD
- Start date
I heard the ride quality on the road isn't that great with the MTs. I do my fair share of time in the dirt, but also spend a lot of time on the interstate.
Just a question: It seems like it is alot of trouble to have the Hummer wheels recentered, then remove the run flat part, just to end up with a wheel that has a very limited tire size range. Wouldn't it be cheaper/easier/faster to just use a standard aluminum or steel wheel and get Staun internal beadlocks for them? They only run about $100 per wheel and you can get them for almost any size rim.
Oilworker
Explorer
I just stumbled across this thread while searching for 17"x8.5" wheels with a min. 3000lbs load index.
An alternative to the 16.5"x8.5 HMMVV wheels may just be found from Hutchinson (#WA-1174)
I have been running the WA-0492 (G-Wagon) wheels for almost 4 years now and with my tyre pressure control system it´s been just perfect.
Especially since the system is 100% airtight and doesn´t deflate itself as the HMMVV system does.
An alternative to the 16.5"x8.5 HMMVV wheels may just be found from Hutchinson (#WA-1174)
I have been running the WA-0492 (G-Wagon) wheels for almost 4 years now and with my tyre pressure control system it´s been just perfect.
Especially since the system is 100% airtight and doesn´t deflate itself as the HMMVV system does.
PMA4x4
Adventurer
I bought a set of wheels and tires from TWF for my Dodge. I am really happy with them, but I am also having a balancing problem. I am coming to the conclusion that these old military tires are impossible to balance. I am going to order a set of centramatic balancers and keep my fingers crossed.
I bet getting the PVC inserts out of the tires is also a big task. I have not tried yet, but I am not looking forward to it when these tires are worn out. I guess a sawzall and cutting the old tire is an option.
Here is a pic of my truck
Any results with the Centramatics?
From my experience the tires had nothing to do with the balancing problem. My issue was the aftermarket inner PVC beadlock. Once installed the PVC would not allow the tire to center itself on the wheel. The tire would be pinched on the wheel off center making for an aweful ride. I tried everything to fix it from antifreeze, golf balls, air soft bb's, cetramatics , and professional tire balancing. Nothing worked. That is when I discovered the tires where not seating centered. If I removed the PVC insert the truck would be smooth. But with a 16.5 wheel that is dangerous due to the lack of safety beads. If you have a flat the tire can come right off of the wheel. I have witnessed this several times.
I would not reccommend recentered hummer wheels to anyone who wants to drive long distances smoothly. The ride was absolutely horrible and I sold the tires and wheels!!! This not only occurred on my truck, my buddy bought the snake oil also and had the same exact problems I had. Maybe with inflatable beadlocks they would work, but if you bought inflatables then you don't need hummer wheels anyways. Just my 2 cents.......
Bella PSD
Explorer
Sort of long, drawn out project but this includes cut out flairs, 37 BFG Baja’s, double beadlock wheels, new Warn winch bumper and removal of NFab side bars. I also have had balancing issues. BUT Trailworthy did remake ALL my wheels. So I have 4 new wheels ready to get mounted. Just have not had the time. I’ll keep in mind the beadlock insert needing to be centered. The balancing issues before were the old wheels. Hoping for the best…. I’ll update when the reworked wheels are on and hopefully balanced.
Louie
Louie
conifers4
Suburban nomad
Sort of long, drawn out project but this includes cut out flairs, 37 BFG Baja's, double beadlock wheels, new Warn winch bumper and removal of NFab side bars. I also have had balancing issues. BUT Trailworthy did remake ALL my wheels. So I have 4 new wheels ready to get mounted. Just have not had the time. I'll keep in mind the beadlock insert needing to be centered. The balancing issues before were the old wheels. Hoping for the best…. I'll update when the reworked wheels are on and hopefully balanced.
Louie
Oh my Lord!
I sold these tires for awhile with good experiences from pretty much everyone who purchased from me. The key is to avoid the Goodyear MT and only use the newer Goodyear MT/R and BFG Baja like above. They don't have the same problems with balance as the MTs do, plus they come in D or E load ranges for better handling. Sounds like you got the PVC inserts, which are great, but be careful not to leave them exposed to the sun or try to force them in/out of the tire as they can crack relatively easy.
Todd at TrailWorthy Fab is a good business owner and has proven to cover his products time and time again, so I'm glad you had everything taken care of. Even though I was a competitor for a time, we worked together on shipping and sometimes threw a customer to the other. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of recentering the wheels because it can be done wrong, weak or improperly, but they have had some of the best results due to their testing balance prior to shipment.
I have 3 sets of the 24 bolts that I switch out on my trucks: 2 w/ Goodyear MT/Rs and 1 w/ BFG Bajas. They go on both my Jeep TJ and my 2 Dodge Rams. I'm doing a long buildup on all of them, but here is a pic of my Ram at Big Meat's Run in Disney, OK this past spring.
Unfortunately I don't sell them anymore, mainly due to the military changing to quantity of tires you can buy per auction, but also due to my back killing me from breaking the dang things down! Seems like everyone only wanted just tires or just rims and it made a pain in the ars. I can point you in the right direction if you decide to get any add-ons or need replacement parts in the future though.
I'm glad you chose the 12 bolts, I hate that so many people buy the 8 bolt version for on-road vehicles. The military originally designed the 8 bolts to only handle the bias ply Goodyears that look like tractor tires and are 36" tall, it was the 12 bolts that were designed for the stronger 37" radials Goodyear MTs. The 24 bolts were added for up-armored vehicles to handle the extra weight and extra resistance to IEDs and small caliber fire. That's where you start seeing the E loads popping and the better 1 piece rubber inserts. Avoid the 2 piece bolt together inserts as they are prone to failure from improper assembly.
Sorry to fill your thread up, feel free to ask any questions if you have any. Some simple tips on disassembly: unbolt the tires with it standing on tread and leaning against a wall or something. Lube the threads and clean them prior to removing nuts. Remove all of the bolts before attempting to pry on the lid (outer face). It should just fall off, but can use a small pry bar or wheel pry to break the seal. The harder part is the backside shell. Make sure you don't get it crooked or it will take you forever to get it off. I leave it sitting on the tread still and use my pry bars and wiggle it loose while spraying in some lubricant, also spray in some on the inside of the PVC insert to help it separate. Take your time and slowly move it out. If you get stuck, take an engine hoist, set the legs on top of the tire, use a piece of wood or something to pull up through the center holes, using the prybars to try and get it even again. Try not to too pull too hard or you'll see the sidewalls buckle the wrong way.
Todd at TrailWorthy Fab is a good business owner and has proven to cover his products time and time again, so I'm glad you had everything taken care of. Even though I was a competitor for a time, we worked together on shipping and sometimes threw a customer to the other. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of recentering the wheels because it can be done wrong, weak or improperly, but they have had some of the best results due to their testing balance prior to shipment.
I have 3 sets of the 24 bolts that I switch out on my trucks: 2 w/ Goodyear MT/Rs and 1 w/ BFG Bajas. They go on both my Jeep TJ and my 2 Dodge Rams. I'm doing a long buildup on all of them, but here is a pic of my Ram at Big Meat's Run in Disney, OK this past spring.
Unfortunately I don't sell them anymore, mainly due to the military changing to quantity of tires you can buy per auction, but also due to my back killing me from breaking the dang things down! Seems like everyone only wanted just tires or just rims and it made a pain in the ars. I can point you in the right direction if you decide to get any add-ons or need replacement parts in the future though.
I'm glad you chose the 12 bolts, I hate that so many people buy the 8 bolt version for on-road vehicles. The military originally designed the 8 bolts to only handle the bias ply Goodyears that look like tractor tires and are 36" tall, it was the 12 bolts that were designed for the stronger 37" radials Goodyear MTs. The 24 bolts were added for up-armored vehicles to handle the extra weight and extra resistance to IEDs and small caliber fire. That's where you start seeing the E loads popping and the better 1 piece rubber inserts. Avoid the 2 piece bolt together inserts as they are prone to failure from improper assembly.
Sorry to fill your thread up, feel free to ask any questions if you have any. Some simple tips on disassembly: unbolt the tires with it standing on tread and leaning against a wall or something. Lube the threads and clean them prior to removing nuts. Remove all of the bolts before attempting to pry on the lid (outer face). It should just fall off, but can use a small pry bar or wheel pry to break the seal. The harder part is the backside shell. Make sure you don't get it crooked or it will take you forever to get it off. I leave it sitting on the tread still and use my pry bars and wiggle it loose while spraying in some lubricant, also spray in some on the inside of the PVC insert to help it separate. Take your time and slowly move it out. If you get stuck, take an engine hoist, set the legs on top of the tire, use a piece of wood or something to pull up through the center holes, using the prybars to try and get it even again. Try not to too pull too hard or you'll see the sidewalls buckle the wrong way.
Swirvin21, great info, particularly with the problems others have been running into. I have a set of 24 bolts with 5 Baja load range E. I was planning on using the PVC inserts but given the posts here about vibration from holding the tire off-center, am concerned. What insert would you recommend?
REMOTEPLACES
Adventurer
By the beard of Zeus!!! Good lord thats the nicest FORD I've ever seen, so sick.
Sort of long, drawn out project but this includes cut out flairs, 37 BFG Baja's, double beadlock wheels, new Warn winch bumper and removal of NFab side bars. I also have had balancing issues. BUT Trailworthy did remake ALL my wheels. So I have 4 new wheels ready to get mounted. Just have not had the time. I'll keep in mind the beadlock insert needing to be centered. The balancing issues before were the old wheels. Hoping for the best…. I'll update when the reworked wheels are on and hopefully balanced.
Louie
There are a few options available: Trailworthy sells the PVC version, Stazworks sells a UHMW version, there is a stock 1 piece rubber version, a stock 2 piece magnesium version (old version), a stock 2 piece rubber version (bolt together) and a stock 2 piece rubber version (2 separate pieces that stack together inside). I have also seen some people make their own with a tube frame that can be built to their individual need.
Here is Trailworthy: 1 piece rubber, PVC and magnesium respectively
Here is a 2 piece Rubber run flat (bolt together)
Here is the stock 2 piece rubber runflats, stacked together
Here is a version of USA 6x6 which is either PVC or UHMW....not sure, bad reputation with anything from these guys!
Here is a shot of the low-profile runflats that I bought and sold. This pic is mine so you can reference the height compared to the tire itself
My PERSONAL opinion, not anything official or tested, is that none of the aftermarket stuff is designed with the intention of being driven on the street. They are all designed around the idea of maintaining the bead integrity, not it's ability to balance or any other drive-ability issues.
I believe the stock Rubber 1 Piece Run Flats are the best to run for Street Use because they were designed to hold traction during a blow-out or when a tire is shot out. In other words, the run flats are designed to continue driving even after the tire is deflated, which means there has to be a very tight fit between the rim and run-flat or the rim would spin inside the runflat. I believe this is what happens to the aftermarket units, they slip around the rim and ruin the balance.
I've found the best way to build a run-flat is to take either a Full-height or Low-profile stock 1 Piece Rubber runflats and turn off the outer portion until it's a consistent flat piece, similar to an aftermarket insert. Now, if you want to reuse what you already have, I recommend using some grease or something like RTV to stick the insert onto the rim. Unfortunately this isn't easy due to space, but it's an option if you've already bought some inserts from someone else.
I've got to run, but I can go into more detail on trimming inserts or cutting inserts to fit in the tires better if anyone would like.
Here are some more examples for reference.
Magnesium Run flat being drilled prior to cutting off the outside:
Cut down Magnesium Run flat:
Lightened PVC Run Flat: typically higher HP rigs looking to save every pound
Steel Cage/Frame Style Run Flat I mentioned before, below is a kit version, not sure who makes it:
Hutchinson newer style Rubber Run Flats, many military versions made by the same company, 16", 16.5", 17", 20" etc
Finally, here is the cutting pattern of a PVC, etc Run Flat Insert so that you can more easily install and remove them if you change tires often. I have not heard any feedback in regards to how well these run on the road
Overall, any insert should be able to clamp the tire beads to the rim provided that it is the correct width for your tires. Tire beads vary drastically between brands, sizes and even variations in different batches. I know Trail Worthy Fab does a good job of trying to supply you with an insert that is the correct width for the tire you are running, but it is important that you have the tires to measure with a caliper and check before ordering or order from someone who can be trusted to do that for you. If your inserts are too narrow you can use a number of materials and methods to increase their width, including cut heater hose, PVC spacers, etc. Someone with a large enough lathe and access to PVC pipe could potentially thread a thick enough piece to be adjustable in theory.
If the insert is wide enough to contact both beads and put adequate pressure on both sides of the rim, it is a successful beadlock. However, if the ID of the insert isn't correct, it can be installed off-center and held in place by the beads, creating a poorly balanced setup. You can try balancing with a lower torque setting on the beadlock nuts so that the insert can align itself while spinning, but I don't know what that setting would be or if the insert would just fall back to the bottom when a vertical balancing machine stops.... The old school horizontal balancing stands may be an option.
I think I'm starting to babble and contradict myself, so I'm going to quit while I'm ahead I think. I still believe that the OEM 1 piece Rubber Run-Flats have the best chance of balancing. If you truly want a perfectly balanced setup you need to become very good friends with a tire shop, take your welder up there and balance each rim individually using washers and weights welded to true the wheel, being sure to mark the clocking of the 2 pieces with a unique drill pattern, etc. Then balance the Runflat/Insert on the rim and see how far off it is, possibly removing material from the run flat to assist, again clocking the insert to the rim (hard to do in the tire.) Finally balancing the entire assembly and only using weights to balance the tire itself. You could probably get away with skipping the 2nd step. I've balanced the Goodyear MT/R and BFG Baja with less than 1oz per wheel on some aluminum 16.5" rims, so the tires are relatively true from the factory when new/near new.
Magnesium Run flat being drilled prior to cutting off the outside:
Cut down Magnesium Run flat:
Lightened PVC Run Flat: typically higher HP rigs looking to save every pound
Steel Cage/Frame Style Run Flat I mentioned before, below is a kit version, not sure who makes it:
Hutchinson newer style Rubber Run Flats, many military versions made by the same company, 16", 16.5", 17", 20" etc
Finally, here is the cutting pattern of a PVC, etc Run Flat Insert so that you can more easily install and remove them if you change tires often. I have not heard any feedback in regards to how well these run on the road
Overall, any insert should be able to clamp the tire beads to the rim provided that it is the correct width for your tires. Tire beads vary drastically between brands, sizes and even variations in different batches. I know Trail Worthy Fab does a good job of trying to supply you with an insert that is the correct width for the tire you are running, but it is important that you have the tires to measure with a caliper and check before ordering or order from someone who can be trusted to do that for you. If your inserts are too narrow you can use a number of materials and methods to increase their width, including cut heater hose, PVC spacers, etc. Someone with a large enough lathe and access to PVC pipe could potentially thread a thick enough piece to be adjustable in theory.
If the insert is wide enough to contact both beads and put adequate pressure on both sides of the rim, it is a successful beadlock. However, if the ID of the insert isn't correct, it can be installed off-center and held in place by the beads, creating a poorly balanced setup. You can try balancing with a lower torque setting on the beadlock nuts so that the insert can align itself while spinning, but I don't know what that setting would be or if the insert would just fall back to the bottom when a vertical balancing machine stops.... The old school horizontal balancing stands may be an option.
I think I'm starting to babble and contradict myself, so I'm going to quit while I'm ahead I think. I still believe that the OEM 1 piece Rubber Run-Flats have the best chance of balancing. If you truly want a perfectly balanced setup you need to become very good friends with a tire shop, take your welder up there and balance each rim individually using washers and weights welded to true the wheel, being sure to mark the clocking of the 2 pieces with a unique drill pattern, etc. Then balance the Runflat/Insert on the rim and see how far off it is, possibly removing material from the run flat to assist, again clocking the insert to the rim (hard to do in the tire.) Finally balancing the entire assembly and only using weights to balance the tire itself. You could probably get away with skipping the 2nd step. I've balanced the Goodyear MT/R and BFG Baja with less than 1oz per wheel on some aluminum 16.5" rims, so the tires are relatively true from the factory when new/near new.
onelow1ton
Adventurer
Great build
Sorry to thread jack but swirvin21 that is some of the best info I have read yet on the inserts , I just installed some mtrs on some 12 bolts I recentered and I used some cut down one peice rubber runflats from twf and I tried using beads first and at 7oz it's no good so I'm pulling them back out and going to make sure my inserts are centered right and not to wide
Sorry to thread jack but swirvin21 that is some of the best info I have read yet on the inserts , I just installed some mtrs on some 12 bolts I recentered and I used some cut down one peice rubber runflats from twf and I tried using beads first and at 7oz it's no good so I'm pulling them back out and going to make sure my inserts are centered right and not to wide