unimog 404 camper

[iandraz]

Hi all,

I'm just starting out building an expedition camper based on my Unimog 404. It's probably going to take a couple years before it's ready to travel, but I'm not in too much of a hurry. Here's a rough sketch of what I'm aiming for:



Right now I'm starting with the torque free subframe, here's some pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/iandraz...7594383936183/

I'll try to keep that page updated as things progress.

- Jacob

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Jacob!

Welcome to the forum!

OK.....that's on my dream list of 4x4 trucks and mods to do!...

God's Speed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

[Robthebrit]

welcome, its good to see another mogger.

What are your plans?

Rob

[iandraz]

I don't have a scanner to upload my plans but basically I'm thinking I'm going to have an outside frame made from steel angle, with 1.5 inch Nida-core for the wall panels, plus maybe an inch of foam insulation on the inside. The angle steel will probably be 6" by 6", maybe 14 gauge or thereabouts.

Kind of the same construction as the latest Turtle Expedition truck:

http://turtleexpedition.com/vehicles/turtle5.php

Anyone have any experience with Nida core?

Also I'm looking at using the Thetford C-4 cassette toilet. Seems relatively easy to install since it's all self contained.

http://www.thetford.com/permanent_cassette.cfm

As far as appliances, I think I'm going to go all electric, with solar power + diesel generator charging the batteries.

The interior plan is going to look a lot like the Unicat trucks, just a little smaller since the 404 isn't as big as the new Mogs.

- Jacob

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Jacob..........

Check out what this member has done...........




http://www.thesupercamper.blogspot.com/





http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4089


#7 01-29-2007, 03:36 PM
SuperCamperos
Observer Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 16



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Nida core is great stuff. You get the frame, skin, and insulation in one piece. The cost really isn't too bad, around $200 a 4' x 8' sheet. Working with fiberglass isn't too terribly hard, but very itchy, especially when doing the cuts. You must have a 8" disk sander and know how to use it, if you want the seams to look good. Orbital or belt sanders won't cut it. If the design has purely 90 degree angles, you can hide all the seams with aluminum angle which cuts down on sanding time and gives some impact resistance. The Turtle Expedition and the Earth Roamer prototype seemed to use aluminum framing with the nida core bonded in--and not glassing the seams. Makes for more difficult frame, but less resin work.

Fiberglass laminated marine plywood seems like it would be too heavy with less insulating qualities.

Same goes for using fiberglass in a mold. You need a lot of glass to get the thickness for rigidity. Using Carbon fiber would just compound this problem. Fiberglass actually ends up being stiffer than carbon for the same weight because the additional thickness is helping you more than the stiffer modulus of the carbon. and carbon is way too expensive and difficult to work with.

Welded aluminum frame would be a good option, but you need to know how to weld, and aluminum is more difficult than steel, it seems.

I can give you some tips on using fiberglass if you decide to go that route...
__________________
http://www.thesupercamper.blogspot.com/

[Robthebrit]

Concerns I would have if building this camper on a 404 frame are exceeding gross weight and engine power. The 2 feet of camper that stick above the cab are going to cost you in speed and power.

A 404 is using all of its 84hp when going down the freeway at 50mph unloaded. With your extra weight and wind resistance 40 mph may not be obtainable and on hills you'll be significantly slower than a 404 already is. I realize expedition vehicles don't have to be fast but this phrase is usually heard when talking about going 70mph or even faster, you really do need to be able to get up to around 50mph even when out of the US.

Unicat don't usually use the lightweight mogs, on the SBU styles they use the 1550 instead of the 1300L. The trucks are exactly the same size but the 1500 series has a significantly higher gross weight and is available with much more engine power (240-280hp). The 1300 is no lightweight in comparison to a 404, its gross vehicle weight is around 16,000 pounds and for many years it was the smallest mog.

I had a radio box 404 for a few months, it wasn't actually mine but it was parked on my driveway and I would drive it a couple of times a week to keep the oil flowing. Compared to my 416 it was slow going and the radio box didn't have much in it, if the box was full I would be driving in 35mph on the smallest hill. The 404 has the same top speed as my 416 but it spends a lot less time there and my 416 is no speed demon.

There are some things you can do, make sure you get the petronix ignition, get a tranny cooler as that is a 404 weak spot and the extra weight is not going to help. Consider pulling the M180 engine and replacing it with an M130, this gives much more power and is almost a direct fit. I would not consider a diesel engine, the 404s gearing doesn't match diesel RPM ranges, even with the fasting spinning diesels that'll fit (OM617A at around 5000rpm) you have more torque but all your top speeds are lowered because of the 1000rpm reduction in engine speed. The 617 at 5000 is a little noisey to be sitting next to for long periods of time.

Another thing that has always concerned me with the 404 is the single circuit brakes and most slave cylinders I have seen have been on the edge of failing, if one cylinder fails you lose your brakes. Rebuild or replace all the cylinders, check the lines for corrosion and check the rubber parts.

I don't mean to sound negative I was just thinking about and I have been around mogs for a lot of years. If you are going to build a really nice camper the cost of the truck is tiny fraction of the total cost, you can get solid diesel mog for 20k is it really that much difference in the total cost of things?

There is a guy on this forum that has a 404 radio box as a camper, maybe he can give some insight on actual experience.

Rob

[charlieaarons]

I agree with Rob, if you're planning on significant travel (you must be, to want to build a big elaborate camper), get the right chassis. If you have 80K to spend there is a U500 cab chassis for sale, a demo, on Ebay, covered by warranty. If not, try to find the newest most powerful largest gvw SBU chassis you can.
Overloading a chassis past gvw with something bulky like a camper will really slow you down but also is downright dangerous. There is a reason why no-one in Europe builds campers on 404s.

Charlie

[unimogmike]

I have a 404 radio box which i use as a camper. I have done pretty much everything listed...installed a M130, updated the brakes to SS sleeves, trans temp guage, etc.etc.etc... With these modifications, it will easily cruise at 55-60 and actually goes up hills in the slow lane rather than on the shoulder with the hazard lights on. Every unimog owner learns to enjoy the scenery.

While my inital cost of entry was very low (I have owned this truck for a long time), I am sure over the last 10+ years I have invested an amount equal to the current cost of a nice used diesel truck. The one thing 404s have going for them is parts are generally cheaper than most unimogs due to the extensive surplus parts. If i were to do it again, I would most likely look at a diesel mog, pinzgauer or maybe even a mercedes 911 or 1113 (ex firetruck). But for now, my unimog camper is very modest but comfortable. It works for me and my four kids would rather take the unimog on a camping trip than anything else.

For any long term expeditions I would highly suggest two items 1) a hardcab truck/cab, there is no security with a soft top truck and 2) when you get the subframe done, borrow some forklift counterweights(or something similar) and drive the truck. you will find unless you upgrade the engine and brakes, the take-off power and stopping ability may be way less than you expect. I noticed a difference between a troop carrier truck and my radio truck prior to any modifications.

Good Luck with the project,

Mike

[iandraz]

Thanks for the ideas everybody.

a little context with the speed issue: I'm mostly planning on traveling 3rd world countries. I was recently in India, and driving on the Mumbai-Pune "Expressway", one of the newest most modern "highways" in India we never got over 90 km/hr. Usually we were going 60-70 km/hr and on the hills the trucks were all going about 404 speed. Of course I would not want to use this truck much in the US, Canada, etc.. If so I would have bought a Sprinter.

Looking at the manual the capacity of my truck looks to be 3000 lb. I assume that's with the bed that i removed so the total capacity would be around 3500-4000. Looking at the specs on bigfootrv.com this would be able to carry even the largest of their campers. So I think as long as I'm careful with the weight I should be okay.

- Jacob

[Colorado Ron]

I would most likely look at a diesel mog, pinzgauer or maybe even a mercedes 911 or 1113 (ex firetruck)

This statement caught my eye. Just curious why you stated youd rather have a pinz over the 404. You mind expanding a little. I had a tough time deciding myself, and just curious your thoughts.