I'm becoming obsessed with First Aid

ThomD

Explorer
It started off with "we should have a first aid kit in the truck". That lead to Wilderness First Aid Training. Now we have a big first aid kit in the truck, and small ones in the other cars. I even carry gloves and dressings in my jacket on the motorbike when I commute.

Then I got CPR training at work. That lead me to look into the survival rates for out of hospital cardiac arrest. I'll save you the google - the rates are not good. Once again, TV has let me down. TV shows that CPR works most of the time. In reality, if you get CPR out of a hospital environment, you are toast. The CPR training at work also covered automatic external defibrillators. Did you know that you can buy those with flex spending money and Costco sells them? I'm thinking about buy one for my 60-something parents for Christmas. Unfortunately, AEDs also have a very limited application.

It's a dangerous world out there. Maybe I'll just wrap myself in bubble wrap. :)
 

Fireman78

Expedition Leader
Don't feel bad... cardiac arrest survivial rates are grim regardless, you could have a paramedic unit eating at the same burger joint you collapse in and you could still assume room temperature. Cheers!
 

nbleak21

Adventurer
It was all good until I read "I even carry gloves and dressings in my jacket." That's a little excessive for anything less than an EMT, IMHO.

Obtaining First Aid knowledge is great, and I highly recommend it for everyone... but there are restrictions, guidelines, and liabilities that some may not be aware of.

Ever heard of DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) cards? You're liable to find yourself in court, sued, over violating a person's wishes, if they carry the card.

Also remember that if you carry a Licence for First Aid, CPR, Lifeguarding, ETC, and have recieved proper training, you are heald liable for your actions, no matter how well and good your intentions are. Even by using your best judgement, if you make a "wrong" call, you're responsible... Also be very mindful of card expiration dates. You could be one day expired, have to use your skills and abilities, and then be held responsible for practicing first aid illegally, while otherwise someone without proper training, could be covered over the good sumaritain clause... Meaning, in the event of this ever happening, you may be better off Instructing someone with no licence to save, rather than doing so yourself with an expired license.

Just some food for thought.
 

Donsfast

Observer
It is unfortunate that the only thing we all have in common is death....its great that you are learning about first aid with such detail though. It is a great idea, knowing what to do when needed will be an asset to yourself and others.
 

ThomD

Explorer
It was all good until I read "I even carry gloves and dressings in my jacket." That's a little excessive for anything less than an EMT, IMHO.

Obtaining First Aid knowledge is great, and I highly recommend it for everyone... but there are restrictions, guidelines, and liabilities that some may not be aware of.

Ever heard of DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) cards? You're liable to find yourself in court, sued, over violating a person's wishes, if they carry the card.

Also remember that if you carry a Licence for First Aid, CPR, Lifeguarding, ETC, and have recieved proper training, you are heald liable for your actions, no matter how well and good your intentions are. Even by using your best judgement, if you make a "wrong" call, you're responsible... Also be very mindful of card expiration dates. You could be one day expired, have to use your skills and abilities, and then be held responsible for practicing first aid illegally, while otherwise someone without proper training, could be covered over the good sumaritain clause... Meaning, in the event of this ever happening, you may be better off Instructing someone with no licence to save, rather than doing so yourself with an expired license.

Just some food for thought.

You'd think the gloves would be too much, but I see about 1 accident per year on my bike.

I'm not a medical professional, so the Good Samaritan laws apply,the Torti case not withstanding.
 

rjcj-8

Adventurer
PPEs are always good to carry even if you are only CPR certified, I won't do any thing beyond chest compressions with out some sort of barrier device.

nbleak21 does bring up some good points about the DNRs but if your not part of the EMS system you should fall under the good samaritan rules but check ot see what they are in your state, not every states rules are the same.

But on the flip side of this with the more training and certifications you get the more that is expected and you can get in just as much trouble for not acting and providing aid.

If you want some good opportunity to train look to see if you have a local CERT or EMA volunteer team.

I've been able to get advance CPR, Advance First Aid, and now currently taking First Responder training through my local CERT program for free or a significantly reduced cost.
 

Firetacoma

Observer
It was all good until I read "I even carry gloves and dressings in my jacket." That's a little excessive for anything less than an EMT, IMHO.

Obtaining First Aid knowledge is great, and I highly recommend it for everyone... but there are restrictions, guidelines, and liabilities that some may not be aware of.

Ever heard of DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) cards? You're liable to find yourself in court, sued, over violating a person's wishes, if they carry the card.

Also remember that if you carry a Licence for First Aid, CPR, Lifeguarding, ETC, and have recieved proper training, you are heald liable for your actions, no matter how well and good your intentions are. Even by using your best judgement, if you make a "wrong" call, you're responsible... Also be very mindful of card expiration dates. You could be one day expired, have to use your skills and abilities, and then be held responsible for practicing first aid illegally, while otherwise someone without proper training, could be covered over the good sumaritain clause... Meaning, in the event of this ever happening, you may be better off Instructing someone with no licence to save, rather than doing so yourself with an expired license.

Just some food for thought.

Most state Good Samaritan laws cover all lay-people, and even volunteer rescuers, as long as they only operate within the scope of their training.

As for the DNR issue, when in doubt, provide care until a family member prevents you with proof they do in fact have a DNR. This could be a signed original document, or a medi-lert tag. But you should be checking for those before you start CPR anyway, right?

My 2 pennies, as an EMT.
 

SunTzuNephew

Explorer
Don't feel bad... cardiac arrest survivial rates are grim regardless, you could have a paramedic unit eating at the same burger joint you collapse in and you could still assume room temperature. Cheers!

You could be on a gurney in my (or any) ED for a hangnail, have a MI and the odds wouldn't be good. Or you could be on an operating table with a ECMO team standing by and your odds are still pretty horribly bad.
 

SunTzuNephew

Explorer
It started off with "we should have a first aid kit in the truck". That lead to Wilderness First Aid Training. Now we have a big first aid kit in the truck, and small ones in the other cars. I even carry gloves and dressings in my jacket on the motorbike when I commute.

Then I got CPR training at work. That lead me to look into the survival rates for out of hospital cardiac arrest. I'll save you the google - the rates are not good. Once again, TV has let me down. TV shows that CPR works most of the time. In reality, if you get CPR out of a hospital environment, you are toast. The CPR training at work also covered automatic external defibrillators. Did you know that you can buy those with flex spending money and Costco sells them? I'm thinking about buy one for my 60-something parents for Christmas. Unfortunately, AEDs also have a very limited application.

It's a dangerous world out there. Maybe I'll just wrap myself in bubble wrap. :)

The use of home AED's doesn't have a great track record, either. Obviously, the first requirement is that someone ELSE be there when it's needed, to use it.

But, be careful with your obsession: I had one and I wound up in medical school:Wow1:
 

Paul 3

Adventurer, Overland Certified OC0011
Obtaining First Aid knowledge is great, and I highly recommend it for everyone... but there are restrictions, guidelines, and liabilities that some may not be aware of.
Certainly good advice.

Also remember that if you carry a Licence for First Aid, CPR, Lifeguarding, ETC, and have recieved proper training, you are heald liable for your actions, no matter how well and good your intentions are.
I am not a legal or medical professional and hopefully one on the many on this board will chime in on the subject, but I do not believe a First Aid or CPR Certification is a License. There is quite a bit of literature distinguishing between a License, Certification and the legal difference between the two.


Even by using your best judgement, if you make a "wrong" call, you're responsible... Also be very mindful of card expiration dates. You could be one day expired, have to use your skills and abilities, and then be held responsible for practicing first aid illegally, while otherwise someone without proper training, could be covered over the good sumaritain clause... Meaning, in the event of this ever happening, you may be better off Instructing someone with no licence to save, rather than doing so yourself with an expired license.
I don't think this represents the Good Samaritan Clause accurately. Originally the Clause was created to protect licensed medical professionals and was eventually, legally, extended to non-professionals. To state that one might be "better off" instructing someone with no prior training is incorrect and potentially very dangerous. Maybe we can get Lance or Andrew to add their professional advice on this. Great topic.

Cheers,
Paul
 

93BLAZER

Explorer
If its your time... its your time, regardless of who's around or what equipment you have laying around.

I'd personally lay of the purchase of more first aid supplies. Personally, just having a cell phone to be able to dial 911 in the event of an accident is more than enough help. If you get to involved with accident scenes, you are opening yourself up to liability. Forget the legal aspect, think of the infectious diseases round. HIV, AIDS, Hep C, MRSA, etc...
 

1leglance

2007 Expedition Trophy Champion, Overland Certifie
It was all good until I read "I even carry gloves and dressings in my jacket." That's a little excessive for anything less than an EMT, IMHO.

Obtaining First Aid knowledge is great, and I highly recommend it for everyone... but there are restrictions, guidelines, and liabilities that some may not be aware of.

Ever heard of DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) cards? You're liable to find yourself in court, sued, over violating a person's wishes, if they carry the card.

Also remember that if you carry a Licence for First Aid, CPR, Lifeguarding, ETC, and have recieved proper training, you are heald liable for your actions, no matter how well and good your intentions are. Even by using your best judgement, if you make a "wrong" call, you're responsible... Also be very mindful of card expiration dates. You could be one day expired, have to use your skills and abilities, and then be held responsible for practicing first aid illegally, while otherwise someone without proper training, could be covered over the good sumaritain clause... Meaning, in the event of this ever happening, you may be better off Instructing someone with no licence to save, rather than doing so yourself with an expired license.

Just some food for thought.

Well we already had a Dr. post in this thread so I will simply backup and add a bit of my thoughts...

First of all, getting all the training and supplies you can is the BEST THING YOU CAN DO, not so much for the random stranger but FOR YOUR FAMILY and YOURSELF.
We are often in remote areas, places where being able to know if something is serious or not can make or break a trip. Places were treating a cut/scape can make the difference between a little pain and a serious infection.

Now on the random stranger & the Good Samaritan law...there are 3 things to remember:
1) Scope of Practice- only do things you KNOW, things you have been TAUGHT & REMEMBER and everything will be fine. If you aren't sure then don't do it. I am an ICU RN & Wilderness EMT level, those are actually in conflict at times on paper but in reality one applies to the Urban setting & the other to remote areas...either way, just because I might understand how to place a breathing tube doesn't mean I will.

2) The law is on your side - the reason we are allowed to work on people is that we are trying to do more good than harm. As long as that is the case then all is well. I challenge anyone who is itching to type some fear mongering response to first go out and find some convictions that show a person acting reasonable for the benefit of another, within their scope and was fined/imprisoned for their actions.
Sure lots of urban legends, lots of "what if's" but finding convictions or even cases tried is tough.

3) DNR and med-alert bracelets - yeah look for them, but AGAIN I challenge anyone to find a case tried or a conviction of someone who gave CPR to a DNR and was prosecuted. Again the law is there to protect you in efforts to render aid. And I ask you, deep down inside how well can you sleep at night if you watch someone die that you could have helped and didn't? The importance of the med-alert bracelet is more about allergies and pacemakers before you give a med or shock someone.

Oh and on the CPR thing...well I assist with a "code" about once a week to every other week, I do lots of chest compressions, give lots of drugs, shock plenty of people....I am not a Dr but an ICU RN which means I am often there before the Dr's and after, I am the one doing the compressions (for a while, we switch often since you will be worn out in minutes)......and all I have to say is that while I will do CPR in the field anytime, I know that it just isn't likely to get a person back home from the hospital. However I will do it anyway because THAT person might be the ONE person it does save.

And on AED's...I am looking to buy one, because in the case of Ventricular Fibrillation or Ventricular Tachycardia shocking someone is pretty much the only thing that will help. And if you do it quickly and properly it has the highest chance of survival.
But then again I would install it in the WAVE as we have a higher risk population, and I am a Boy Scout Leader with a high risk group of parents & grandparents that come to hikes & campouts.
For the average person I don't think an AED is worth having.

Lastly...on the subject of First Aid kits...have lots of Kerlex type rolled gauze vs those little single packs, a good size syringe (20ml) for washing wounds, PLEASE DON'T USE THAT QUICKCLOT STUFF, carry hydration solutions, and learn learn learn how to use what you have.
Oh and if you ever travel in groups ask your Dr for a script for an Epi-pen, that could save a life of someone who didn't know they were allergic to something, or knew and lost/forgot their pen.

We have a number of medical/SAR/EMS folks on this board, I would advise anyone who has interest in this topic to read what they write carefully vs some of the knee jerk fear mongering reactions that are often posted no forums.
 
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SunTzuNephew

Explorer
I carry, and have used, Quikclot....the powder (original formula) might have had some problems (all anecdotal) but the new stuff (combat gauze, sponges) is good stuff and I recommend it for anyone that might need it.
 

Dave Bennett

Adventurist
I carry, and have used, Quikclot....the powder (original formula) might have had some problems (all anecdotal) but the new stuff (combat gauze, sponges) is good stuff and I recommend it for anyone that might need it.

Me too. The new combat gauze is great.

FYSA to those wondering, powder type quick clot exhibits a thermogenic reaction (gets HOT) that rapidly forms large clots - the downside to this is it must be SURGICALLY removed...
 

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