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Thread: FZJ80 brake bleeding hell

  1. #1
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    Default FZJ80 brake bleeding hell

    The brakes on my '95 FZJ80 were a tad mushy, so I thought I'd bleed and see what happens....

    I spent half the day yesterday and half the day today bleeding...and bleeding...and bleeding. I've got the clearest and cleanest brake fluid I've ever seen, but not only do I still have mushy brakes, now I have brakes that go almost (although not quite) to the floor, when the engine is turned on. With the engine off, the pedal feels OK, although when I really stand it, it's pretty low. I'm pretty sure it's not drivable at this point. However, it was perfectly drivable before I started messing with bleeding the darn things.

    I've followed the FSM to the letter again, and again. Even did the master cylinder several times. At this point, I'm wondering if my master cylinder was going bad and bleeding the brakes just caused it to go over the edge somehow or if I just need to keep bleeding, because I still have air in the system.

    I'd certainly appreciate any insight as to why it is so difficult to get air out of the system, compared to other rigs, assuming that's my problem. I thought maybe the ABS was trapping air, but I've read this problem is occures on the FJ80s too. My other theory is that some how the return line from the LSVP is trapping air and not letting it out.

    The FSM says to "bleed the by-pass pipe", but makes no mention of what exactly that is. I'm guessing they are referring to the LSVP, which I've definately bleed over and over again. But I would sure love to know if they mean something else and I'm missing something.
    Brian McCamish
    In Search of History Expeditions
    Gresham, Oregon
    1995 Toyota Land Cruiser FZJ80 (new expedition rig)
    1989 Toyota 4x4 truck w/SAS (retired expedition rig)
    www.brian894x4.com (Homepage)
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  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Hey Brian

    I also had a very hard time bleeding the brakes on my 80, for some reason, it took A LOT longer then most rigs to get it dialed in. Weird, i have read the FSM several times and dont recall any mention of a "bypass pipe" maybe thats my problem!

    Sounds like you have done all of the usual stuff.

    I will bet my $ on the MC, although you VERY rarely hear of those going out on these trucks. If all else fails, i suggest "Bench" bleeding the Master Cylinder and trying the whole process over again before you go out and buy a new one.

    I ended up going with the one person speed bleeders from Napa and they work great! The first time i bled my brakes, some really gnarly crap/goo came out of those lines.

    My .02
    O.G. Portal Member # 183
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  3. #3
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    Is it on jack stands with the rear wheel dangling? The LSPV will make it feel like doo doo sometimes. The rear brakes are the majority of brake feel. Put it at ride height and see how it feels.
    Got a vacuum pump? Pull a vacuum on the master reservoir for a couple hours.
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  4. #4
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    Oh man, I hope you're able to figure it out. I saw the nipple at the LSPV but only used the four corners to bleed.

    I didn't refer to the fsm, I just had somebody at the peddle and pumped it until clear fluid came out (while keeping reservoir full). Once I felt it was good enough, he depressed the peddle until I closed the nipple. And did this at every corner.

    Just make sure you tell him to let off the pedal before you loosen the next valve, or you might get shot in the face - like somebody I know
    Mark Lachica
    -1995 Toyota FZJ80
    -2007 AT Chaser
    -2007 Suzuki DRZ400S

  5. #5
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    Well, I have the axle on jack stands so the LSVP is sitting normally. I'm going to try something different tonight, based on some stuff I saw on Mud.

    I'll bleed using the pedal method with the engine on. I have a feeling this might be the little known trick to fix the LC80 bleeding problem, but we'll see.

    I'll post results when I'm done.
    Brian McCamish
    In Search of History Expeditions
    Gresham, Oregon
    1995 Toyota Land Cruiser FZJ80 (new expedition rig)
    1989 Toyota 4x4 truck w/SAS (retired expedition rig)
    www.brian894x4.com (Homepage)
    Our Land Cruiser FZJ80 Main Page
    In Search of History Page
    Abandoned & Active Railroads of the NW Page

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Hayward, CA
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    Here's the procedure I always follow on every car/truck I work on. It requires a helper and is the best way I know of to bleed brakes.

    Helper gets in the car, turns key on, and maintains pressure on the brake pedal until told otherwise.

    You take position at one corner of the vehicle with wrench for bleed screw.

    Open bleed screw for two seconds.

    Close bleed screw.

    Tell helper "cycle," as in raise the brake pedal and again maintain pressure.

    Open bleed screw for two seconds.

    Close bleed screw.

    Cycle.

    Repeat 5-6 times. Check fluid level.

    Tap caliper with rubber mallet to dislodge any air bubbles.

    Bleed again, as needed, until no more air or debris comes out.

    Move to next corner.


    This method works well because there's no guesswork as to when to stop pushing the pedal. Your helper just maintains pressure until you say "cycle." You are certain to open and close the bleed screw while the fluid is under pressure, giving no chance for air to enter the system.

    Hope this works for you.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the tips. Good info.

    I'm a step closer, but still no dice.

    I finally got a nice steady stream of fluid come from each corner with no bubbles, but the LSVP is still giving me headaches. Still got bubbles and pedal still goes to the floor.

    I ran out of brake fluid, so I'll have to continue tomorrow. I used 3.5 full size cans today and total about 7-8 cans of brake fluid to get to this point. But now that I know what it looks when there are no bubbles, I at least know what to shoot for with the LSPV. I'm a little confused why I have no bubbles at the rear brakes, but still have air at the LSVP. I"m guessing it's the return pipe from the LSVP that still has air in it. I also wonder if that darn air in the return pipe and the fact that most people and brake shops don't bother bleeding the LSPV, much less use 8 cans of brake fluid, if all these complaints I hear about the 80s braking system might be nothing more than an improperly bleed brake system with air still trapped in the LSPV and return pipe.

    By the time this is done, it's going to one seriously flushed system. I did test the master cylinder using the method where you put steady pressure on the pedal and see if it drops over time. It doesn't, so while the brake pedal does go to the floor with full pressure and the engine turned on, I'm think it's still just air in the system.

    I also went to change the oil today and it took me about an hour to get the oil filter off, thanks to who ever the PO had change the oil over tightening it. Not a good weekend. But, I figured out if you just unbolt the power steering resevor, getting to the oil filter is super easy, assuming it's not overtightened.
    Brian McCamish
    In Search of History Expeditions
    Gresham, Oregon
    1995 Toyota Land Cruiser FZJ80 (new expedition rig)
    1989 Toyota 4x4 truck w/SAS (retired expedition rig)
    www.brian894x4.com (Homepage)
    Our Land Cruiser FZJ80 Main Page
    In Search of History Page
    Abandoned & Active Railroads of the NW Page

  8. #8
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    Abu Dhabi, UAE
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    One other item that may come in handy...


    It is the Motive Products Power Bleeder. I picked one up used (only used once) off of Yotatech and absolutely love it. It makes bleeding the brakes a cinch. My wife doesn't have to pump the brake pedal and the system is under constant pressure. BTW, I don't have any interest in them, it has just REALLY made the job easier.

    One other detail... when bleeding brakes by pumping the pedal you can cause the brake piston to travel further in the cylinder than it normally does. If there is corrosion or debris in that area, it can damage the seal on the piston. While this is typically a problem only in older vehicles or those with a poorly maintained brake system, it is a consideration. Was your fluid extremely discolored before you started?

    Brian, are you bleeding the LSPV last, after all four wheels? I know for my truck the LSPV has to be bled last. Since you have the FSM, I'm sure you are but just thought I'd ask to be sure.

    Hope you get it worked out.
    - 1997 Toyota FZJ80 (Abu Dhabi)
    - 1998 Toyota T100 (underground giant humidor vault somewhere in Kansas)


    So keep'em coming these lines on the road
    And keep me responsible be it a light or heavy load
    And keep me guessing with these blessings in disguise
    And I'll walk with grace my feet and faith my eyes

  9. #9
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    I've heard that product mentioned a few times with good comments. If all else fails, I may try to find one. I'll definately consider one if I have to do this again.

    The FSM is very vauge about the brake system on a number of different points. They only mention start at the cylinder with the longest line first and that's it. Then the second sentence says, bleed the brake return pipe, but doesn't indicate what that is.

    I assume that's the LSPV. It definately doesn't mention bleeding the LSVP by the name we all know it as, or in what order. However, since the LSVP feeds the back brakes, I assumed RR, LR then LSPV, then front. However, I've been doing it so much that I've gone out of order a number of times.

    Now that all four wheels bleed good, but not the LSVP I'm kind of confused, except that I think the air coming out of the LSVP nipple is actually from the return pipe between the LSPV and ABS. If that's the case, then it might make sense that the LSPV needs to be done last.

    As for the color, it was pretty good. I don't "think" I've damaged the master cylinder, but I'm heard of that being possible. I know I still have air in the LSVP line as I can see bubbles when I bleed.

    We'll see.......
    Brian McCamish
    In Search of History Expeditions
    Gresham, Oregon
    1995 Toyota Land Cruiser FZJ80 (new expedition rig)
    1989 Toyota 4x4 truck w/SAS (retired expedition rig)
    www.brian894x4.com (Homepage)
    Our Land Cruiser FZJ80 Main Page
    In Search of History Page
    Abandoned & Active Railroads of the NW Page

  10. #10
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    Atlanta
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    The line at the LSPV is a feed back line from the front circuit.

    It works against a diaphragm in the LSPV. No fluid exchanges. The brakes should bleed in the same order as your 89. Four wheels then LSPV
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