VanIsle_Greg
I think I need a bigger truck!
Looking excellent.
out with the old in with the new
- Thread starter westyss
- Start date
westyss
Explorer
Yes I have considered doing that and not only am I considering it I AM doing that. I did not want to try that until I had the roof back to its original position then inject some epoxy so that it will cure in the correct position.
The one problem I have is finding a way to inject the epoxy with pressure. I have a feeling that I need to inject the epoxy using a long plastic tube to get the epoxy spread deep enough, the fibreglass material is too thick to be able to push it around like a tube of toothpaste, so I need to find a way to use a syringe type of thing for the epoxy to pressurize it, that or use sika and a standard caulking gun, only problem with that would be the sika needs moisture to cure and it may be too dry and take much too long to cure. Any ideas on pressurizing the epoxy mixture?
There is no hurry to get that done as there is no strength issue with the roof, even prior to the roof rack install I still would walk around up there with no problems, its just with time and gravity the sag would most likely continue.
West system for instance makes fillable caulk tubes and syringes. If the area is big maybe use the caulk tube but it would take a larger hole. They syringes would be a smaller hole but more times refilling if a large area and probably more of them. http://209.20.76.247/ss/assets/mixi... Fillable Caulking tubes and 807 Syringes.jpg
fluffyprinceton
Adventurer
As far as pumping the epoxy it's pretty straight forward - Just drill a hole and syringe the epoxy in. The diameter of the holes should stop the syringe (which has a tapered nozzle) such that there is a tight jam fit. The pressure comes from your thumb on the syringe - which is considerable (& I think could be calculated using the known diameters of the tube & nozzle hole plus your thumb power..) I usually cut the nozzle back for a bigger hole when using the typical small syringes from epoxy suppliers. I think they would be big enough for what you are doing - they refill quick....This system will pump the epoxy fine...USE A SLOWER SET EPOXY AS THE PRESSURE IN THE SYRINGE GENERATES HEAT...(or just have a bunch of syringes on hand...) - now it gets more complicated.
If the delamination were between solid layers you'd just pump the epoxy into the void while the piece sags then jack it into place & catch the excess epoxy as it comes out. It this case I think the epoxy should be thickened just enough to keep it from flowing from the holes after you've jacked it into place. One approach would be to drill a number of holes maybe 1" -25mm apart over the entire area of the delamination. The spacing is a variable dependent on how well the epoxy spreads within the laminate - which in turn is dependent on the thickness of the epoxy - (if you've thickened it with silca of whatever) AND the nature of the void you're pumping the epoxy into...
If the core material is compromised, meaning the failure is within the core with the exterior skins still well bonded you have to "rebuild the core" by pumping thickened epoxy into the core - so your hole depth and epoxy mix is critical.
If the top laminate and/or the bottom laminate has separated - and it's often difficult to tell which - the job is to get your epoxy to rebond to the core. Generally a shallow hole works for this if your core is OK and of the closed cell type - if it's a honey comb type...your a bit hosed because the voids are big...
One sure solution if you can't really tell what failed - the core or the skin bonds - is to drill a series of holes maybe 1/2 in dia - 13mm from one skin to the other and fill them with a structural epoxy mix. These tubes (called an annulus) structurally replace the core by bonding the skins together. You can just drill a small hole then use an allen wrench in a drill to make the hole in the core - saves time refinishing the surface...
The sizing of the annulus's is seat of the pants...more smaller holes or fewer bigger holes. With a honey comb type core you might be able to use the honey comb cells as the epoxy filled annulus.
In practice I usually use a combination of all these when repairing cores (short of the horror of removing one skin, replacing the core & re-laminating). It will end up heavier & wouldn't be a great idea in a airplane wing...but it's a good if gooey fix. Moe
If the delamination were between solid layers you'd just pump the epoxy into the void while the piece sags then jack it into place & catch the excess epoxy as it comes out. It this case I think the epoxy should be thickened just enough to keep it from flowing from the holes after you've jacked it into place. One approach would be to drill a number of holes maybe 1" -25mm apart over the entire area of the delamination. The spacing is a variable dependent on how well the epoxy spreads within the laminate - which in turn is dependent on the thickness of the epoxy - (if you've thickened it with silca of whatever) AND the nature of the void you're pumping the epoxy into...
If the core material is compromised, meaning the failure is within the core with the exterior skins still well bonded you have to "rebuild the core" by pumping thickened epoxy into the core - so your hole depth and epoxy mix is critical.
If the top laminate and/or the bottom laminate has separated - and it's often difficult to tell which - the job is to get your epoxy to rebond to the core. Generally a shallow hole works for this if your core is OK and of the closed cell type - if it's a honey comb type...your a bit hosed because the voids are big...
One sure solution if you can't really tell what failed - the core or the skin bonds - is to drill a series of holes maybe 1/2 in dia - 13mm from one skin to the other and fill them with a structural epoxy mix. These tubes (called an annulus) structurally replace the core by bonding the skins together. You can just drill a small hole then use an allen wrench in a drill to make the hole in the core - saves time refinishing the surface...
The sizing of the annulus's is seat of the pants...more smaller holes or fewer bigger holes. With a honey comb type core you might be able to use the honey comb cells as the epoxy filled annulus.
In practice I usually use a combination of all these when repairing cores (short of the horror of removing one skin, replacing the core & re-laminating). It will end up heavier & wouldn't be a great idea in a airplane wing...but it's a good if gooey fix. Moe
westyss
Explorer
Thanks for that info Moe,
the delamination occurred between the layer of glass that is approximately 1/8" thick and the foam filled honeycomb structure. I am not sure of the exact method that was used in the making of my panels but I think it may have been a sheet of finished material stuck onto the foam/honeycomb core using a vacuum baggy type of thing but thats a guess. Maybe something like a piece of laminate glued onto plywood for a countertop.
So with that I plan to make some strategic holes that will align with the holes that are now in the ceiling for the rack mount so that it would be easy to hide, that led me to think I would not be able to get the epoxy into the further reaches without making more holes in the finished ceiling which I dont want to do or see if I can flow epoxy using surgical tubing into the depths, I have used spray foam in that way and it flows well through the tubing but it is already under pressure and there is a limit as to how long of a hose it will flow through, foam only flows through about 16" with 3/8" tube. Have you ever tried something like that using epoxy? I dont think I would make a very thick mixture but keep it a little runny so that the hose does not slow the flow rate down.
I used to do some boat yard work when I was younger and one of the ways my boss repaired delam was similar to what you stated using the annulus, he had some contraption he designed and built to pressurize the epoxy and cram it into the void and used a plastic straw to help remove air while filling the void then simply removed the straw after. Chopper gun delam was a little more complex but a hand laid application it worked great, so I need to track him down and borrow his machine. I believe he used compressed air??? I get the feeling that I would not be able to get enough pressure using a syringe so maybe a test is in order.
Here is an image of what the composite structure looks like, this is the floor but it is exactly the same as the roof.
westyss
Explorer
Yeah my guess is it would flow OK, the syringes from West are pretty small, my supplier has slightly bigger ones so I may give those a try without using a tube and see if I can get the epoxy to spread enough.
Just a thought, but if you need a larger syringe / needle, check your local farm supply stores.
After I did the engineered hardwood floors in my house some of the contact cement turned loose in spots. I drilled through and injected thinned white glue using large animal syringes.
Also used a Tony Chachere's cajun turkey seasoning syringe. I think it had a slightly larger needle. This is a great solution, since you don't want to waste the seasoning... Highly recommend you do the turkey first, though.
After I did the engineered hardwood floors in my house some of the contact cement turned loose in spots. I drilled through and injected thinned white glue using large animal syringes.
Also used a Tony Chachere's cajun turkey seasoning syringe. I think it had a slightly larger needle. This is a great solution, since you don't want to waste the seasoning... Highly recommend you do the turkey first, though.
fluffyprinceton
Adventurer
I agree. If somebody's hot to calculate something I wonder what the PSI of a 1/2" dia syringe with a 1/8" outlet and 10 lbs of pressure on the plunger would be? I dimly remember pumping 5 or so ounces into a laminate void with a small syringe...you'd be surprised how much material you can pump with a small syringe...
One idea is to drill two holes at opposite ends of the delamination - pump until epoxy comes out the other hole - if the delamination is not long & narrow you can do this and just plug the hole (toothpick?) when the epoxy comes out then drill another small hole around the "circle" of the delamination and repeat till you are confident epoxy has filled in the voids. It works...
Looking at your core I'd say you can just rebond with liquid epoxy pumped into the space between the foam filled core & the skin. You would have to do both top & bottom though...wouldn't you? I'm assuming the core is sound, so you have to rebond the skins top & bottom. Light tapping on the skin can give you a good idea if the skin has lost its bond so maybe there's just one skin to rebond? Depends on the sag...
A major question is do you pump the epoxy in with the panel jacked into the desired shape...or pump it in then jack it up. My inclination is to make sure there's space for the epoxy to flow into THEN jack it up & let the excess flow out. It's a good question...
Best thing is to use a vacuum pump - jack it up, drill two holes and suck epoxy from one to another - I've seen entire boat hulls re bonded this way by repeating the process several square feet at a time. Moe
Outlet size doesn't matter in the equation of maximum pressure you could generate (it would reduce the pressure fighting back through which would just mean less applied pressure required). .5"dia is .19635sq in so with 10lb of pressure you could generated ~51psi.
westyss
Explorer
The delam is only on the inside created by a heater placed too close to the ceiling, the area fans out from where the heater was placed to cover an area of around 5 square feet. the core is fine and no delam anywhere else, the one problem I foresee is when the fibreglass/gelcoat outer surface was heated it warped a bit so I will need to jack up the panel to make contact with the core. I will most likely do small sections at a time and see how far the epoxy penetrates then let it set and move on, similar to what you describe above. I think for me I will pump the epoxy in then jack it up and let it set. A vacuum pump would be the best but I doubt that will happen.
I will also be waiting until summer to do that, so lots of time to think it through. Thanks for the information all!
westyss
Explorer
Cut, bent, welded, rivetted a bunch of aluminum to make the rub rail to protect the solar panels. I started on this side and it worked out so duplicated the other side.
Curb side rub rail pretty much done, a piece of aluminum sheet is sitting in front of the rigid panels and will be formed to make a wind fairing and deflector.
Almost done on the roof, all thats left is the fairings and a cover piece for the unisolar panel connections. Highest point on the roof is still the roof vent, 4" when closed, the roof rack and panels combine to add 3 1/2" to the overall height.
Finished up most of the wiring for the solar and also connected up the Iota 3 stage 55 amp battery charger, that's shown lower left, and two solar charge controllers for each bank of solar panels (don't ask) those are far right and top middle, with the 600 watt pure sine wave Zantrex inverter tucked up on the top right,it has a remote switch to turn on/off inside, and a very high tech system for shore power, a power bar that plugs into an extension cord! The white hose is a water tank vent, it will be directed downward into a drain hole. Tidy up the wires a bit and call it done.
I pulled all the batteries out from the box and cleaned, tested and refilled them, then re-wired them so that future maintenance will be easier using plenty of dielectric grease on any exposed metal. I thought for sure that I abused those batteries over the last three years but the specific gravity was right up there
) Installed the shunt for the battery monitor which is now useable after being mounted in the fridge cabinet for one year. I had also been just using one starter battery for a while but it did not turn the engine over well in the winter so I squeezed in the other battery. Now there are six batteries in that one little aluminum box?? They just fit in there and hardly any room to move about but I did fill the gaps to tighten it all up.
I have been looking for a real skull from a moose or steer etc. for a while now to go on the front of the truck somewhere but that might not be cool with border crossings so I found this and mounted it.
Curb side rub rail pretty much done, a piece of aluminum sheet is sitting in front of the rigid panels and will be formed to make a wind fairing and deflector.
Almost done on the roof, all thats left is the fairings and a cover piece for the unisolar panel connections. Highest point on the roof is still the roof vent, 4" when closed, the roof rack and panels combine to add 3 1/2" to the overall height.
Finished up most of the wiring for the solar and also connected up the Iota 3 stage 55 amp battery charger, that's shown lower left, and two solar charge controllers for each bank of solar panels (don't ask) those are far right and top middle, with the 600 watt pure sine wave Zantrex inverter tucked up on the top right,it has a remote switch to turn on/off inside, and a very high tech system for shore power, a power bar that plugs into an extension cord! The white hose is a water tank vent, it will be directed downward into a drain hole. Tidy up the wires a bit and call it done.
I pulled all the batteries out from the box and cleaned, tested and refilled them, then re-wired them so that future maintenance will be easier using plenty of dielectric grease on any exposed metal. I thought for sure that I abused those batteries over the last three years but the specific gravity was right up there
) Installed the shunt for the battery monitor which is now useable after being mounted in the fridge cabinet for one year. I had also been just using one starter battery for a while but it did not turn the engine over well in the winter so I squeezed in the other battery. Now there are six batteries in that one little aluminum box?? They just fit in there and hardly any room to move about but I did fill the gaps to tighten it all up.
I have been looking for a real skull from a moose or steer etc. for a while now to go on the front of the truck somewhere but that might not be cool with border crossings so I found this and mounted it.
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westyss
Explorer
Okay here is a test.
I found this wiring diagram on how to most efficiently connect four batteries together to have equal charge and draw for all four, I found this diagram here; http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
Seemed like a good idea so I did exactly as it was shown. Now after I wired it up I put my tester on the positive and negative wires coming out of the bank and read around 8 volts?? So what is up?
Pretty easy answer but I will post it tomorrow if no one gets it.
I found this wiring diagram on how to most efficiently connect four batteries together to have equal charge and draw for all four, I found this diagram here; http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
Seemed like a good idea so I did exactly as it was shown. Now after I wired it up I put my tester on the positive and negative wires coming out of the bank and read around 8 volts?? So what is up?
Pretty easy answer but I will post it tomorrow if no one gets it.
westyss
Explorer
Last year I hit a pile of dirt hiding a concrete manhole with my front left tire/rim and some dirt had gotten into the bead and as a result a slow leak developed into a fast one. The truck is not insured for the road so I took the tire/rim in for repairs.
The guy at Kal Tire lifted the thing out of my car(heavy), rolled it inside, pulled the tire off, inspected it, replaced the whole valve stem and re-beaded it then put it back into my car, no charge! worked on it for over half an hour! thats service, didn't even ask me if I bought my tires there! ( I did )
Oh yeah! He also gave me a valve tightener in the form of a screwdriver.
Fuso was kind enough to weld these rings onto the axles so the jack fits in and no slip.
Note the Whipsaw damage on the cross support for the battery box behind the jack.
Tools of the trade, 3/4" x 48" beaker bar, jack, blocks , shovel and 48" length of galvanized iron pipe.
I may need to find a 1" breaker bar!
Forty thousand kilometers on these tires now.
The last piece of aluminum protection for the solar was put on and that pretty much puts that project at an end!
The bit of ally is the leading edge strip in front of the uni solar panels (right side ) it protects the wiring for those panels, there is also the ramp looking piece in front of the hard panels to make sure branches cant get under them and rip them off! Also a wind fairing.
Foam was used to fill under the sloping ramps to prevent caving in when some oaf steps on it ;o)
Eventually a half pipe will cover the semi exposed wire run from the front.
There is still a large area on the roof above the bathroom that may get a skylight/vent type of thing in the future when I get around to doing the bathroom!!
The roof still goes up!
The right front actuator is rising a little slower than usual, they have been going up equally until now so I will have to track down the problem, most likely a poor connection somewhere.
With the battery monitor now functioning I can start to note how many amps are used for certain items, for example when all four actuators are operating at the same time they draw 22 amps, the fridge when I initially fired it up drew 5.2 amps while running but once it went through some initial cooling dropped down to 4.2 amps, all the Led lights on draw .7-.8 amps................. what else did I note...... oh yeah, inverter on powering up the TV with a loud movie drew 3 amps.
poor pic here but shows the Espar heater on full blast with the two heat exchanger fans running and drawing .7 amps! Ha! fooled you.....the truck was just starting to get hit by the sun and was making a bit of power.
The batteries are topped up full as indicated by the light on the controller blinking the "flood" indication.
The guy at Kal Tire lifted the thing out of my car(heavy), rolled it inside, pulled the tire off, inspected it, replaced the whole valve stem and re-beaded it then put it back into my car, no charge! worked on it for over half an hour! thats service, didn't even ask me if I bought my tires there! ( I did )
Oh yeah! He also gave me a valve tightener in the form of a screwdriver.
Fuso was kind enough to weld these rings onto the axles so the jack fits in and no slip.
Note the Whipsaw damage on the cross support for the battery box behind the jack.
Tools of the trade, 3/4" x 48" beaker bar, jack, blocks , shovel and 48" length of galvanized iron pipe.
I may need to find a 1" breaker bar!
Forty thousand kilometers on these tires now.
The last piece of aluminum protection for the solar was put on and that pretty much puts that project at an end!
The bit of ally is the leading edge strip in front of the uni solar panels (right side ) it protects the wiring for those panels, there is also the ramp looking piece in front of the hard panels to make sure branches cant get under them and rip them off! Also a wind fairing.
Foam was used to fill under the sloping ramps to prevent caving in when some oaf steps on it ;o)
Eventually a half pipe will cover the semi exposed wire run from the front.
There is still a large area on the roof above the bathroom that may get a skylight/vent type of thing in the future when I get around to doing the bathroom!!
The roof still goes up!
The right front actuator is rising a little slower than usual, they have been going up equally until now so I will have to track down the problem, most likely a poor connection somewhere.
With the battery monitor now functioning I can start to note how many amps are used for certain items, for example when all four actuators are operating at the same time they draw 22 amps, the fridge when I initially fired it up drew 5.2 amps while running but once it went through some initial cooling dropped down to 4.2 amps, all the Led lights on draw .7-.8 amps................. what else did I note...... oh yeah, inverter on powering up the TV with a loud movie drew 3 amps.
poor pic here but shows the Espar heater on full blast with the two heat exchanger fans running and drawing .7 amps! Ha! fooled you.....the truck was just starting to get hit by the sun and was making a bit of power.
The batteries are topped up full as indicated by the light on the controller blinking the "flood" indication.
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