Are windows in an expedition rig over-rated?

[Kohburn]

I'm in the initial stages of designing a camper that will be used primarily in the soggy pacific north west. I've spent nearly 20 years camping in various rigs from tents, campers, pop-ups, to hard sided trailers. In nearly every situation the windows became nearly useless for ventelation during a typical rainy day due in part to being the common slide style rv window, AND they become a drippy mess each morning and night with condensation. I've taken a close look at the newer acrylic dometic windows but see two issues that are hidrances; 1) most i've seen in use have scratches, 2) owners report wind damage.

Are windows really needed?

I agree on allthe downfalls of most windows, but I would go stir crazy without natural lighting at the least. You can of course to translucent panels to let light in, but the views are pretty important too.

I haven't been able to find any products in America that meet what I want: I want full awning windows, break resistant laminated glass, and insulated glass.

So I'm planning to break out the argon tank from my welding rig, get some custom cut glass panels and make my own insulated glass section. The outter glass pane will be 1/4" thick laminated safety glass, with a 1/16" argon gap, then the inner panel can be either safety glass, tempered glass, acrylic, or polycarbonate.

I'll make the frames out of wood and soak them with epoxy to make them waterproof and stronger. I've priced out the glass and each window will end up costing me about 150$ for a 2'x3' window

 

[ntsqd]

Look into "butyl tape" for adhering the glass. It will seal, but it will need support under the glass to control creep in the vertical direction.

A little trickiness with a welder, drill, and a tank valve would allow charging the void w/o contamination, but trickier is going to be pulling a vacuum to first remove the air.

Rob Gray's build diary specifically on how he built the awning/shutters for his pane-less windows:
http://www.robgray.com/graynomad/wothahellizat/wot2/diaries/diary_04/index.php
Diary index: http://www.robgray.com/graynomad/wothahellizat/wot2/diaries/index.php

Leaving them closed offers protection from scratches in the glass and allows what I call 'guerrilla camping.'

 

[Kohburn]

A little trickiness with a welder, drill, and a tank valve would allow charging the void w/o contamination, but trickier is going to be pulling a vacuum to first remove the air.

no real need to pull a vacuum due to the density of argon. As seen on mythbusters you can even fill a fishtank with it and float a paper boat ontop of it. May not stay 100% pure, but it stays together well enough to displace the humid atmospheric air.

can either lay the first pane with the sealant already on the perimeter flat inside a larger box filled with argon, then just slowly lower the second pane down onto it to trap the argon inside; or you can stand the two panes on edge with an air gap at the top to let the lighter air out while filling from the other corner with the argon using something like the needle used to fill soccer/basket balls. the argon will sink to the bottom and displace all the lighter gasses forcing them out the air gap at the top, then you plug both holes and done.

as for why argon? I though about that myself. Helium would provide less heat transfer, but helium is also really difficult to trap inside anything due to the small size of the atoms.

The gap size was just what I settled on for minimum visual distortion while giving a decent sized airgap.

 

[Kohburn]

Great idea ! - couple of how to questions...
What do you use for glazing?
How do you "charge" the gap with the argon, then close it up without contaminating the argon?
Why argon?
How did you come up with a 1/16" gap?
Do you radius the 4 corners of the glass to get a better corner seal (since a mitered corner would concentrate stresses)? Thanks - Peter

for glazing I plan to use 100% silicon rtv - the same that is used to hold fishtanks together. That is to say, the glass is mechanicly locked in by a groove in the wood frame, the silicon is to seal it and provide some vibration damping and take up the gap around the edges.

the corners of the glass would all be buffed to a smooth corner, the radius generally works out to be about 1/16". to avoid added stress onthe glass you can always increase the clearance in the groove in the corner areas. I don't think it will be necessary though if the frame is done well, I've done my share of replacing glass panes on old "antique" doors and windows and the corners are never radius and those are usually 1/8" thick glass.

 

[Kohburn]

I've had good luck making boat window frames with radius corners out of two layers of marine ply. Takes 8 pieces which individually look sort of like hockey sticks - less material waste compared to cutting the whole frame out whole. You overlap & stack them - after routering the rebate for the glass & epoxy saturating you end up with a frame with no joints which is nice for high vibration situations like vehicles. Peter

multiple layers of plywood is exactly what I had in mind.

 

[Code Monkey]

Like the personal armored personnel carrier in Babylon AD with the inside lined with monitors hooked up to FLIR cams on the outside??

Uhhh, no thanks. I do intend to have a monitor inside with some security cams outside for a number of reasons, including the fact that I want to know what is going on outside my rig at times and windows just don't do that.

For security, I plan on fabricating my camper as a hard-sided popup. When the top is down it will cover the windows and the door making it pretty hard to break into without going through two layers of tough composite siding.

For ventilation I will have several roof vents, one will probably be an escape hatch.

Side windows. I will have a little bit of a rain gutter over the top and it doesn't take much of an opening in inclement weather to get a little cross ventilation going. I may also have a few vents down low on the sides, probably with fans, to get some ventilation coming in low and exiting high through the roof.

The condensation is a problem though. I've even had windows, both in my house and vehicles/campers, freeze open or shut. Insulated windows are going to be something I look at because I do intend to use my rig in the snow.

 

[southpier]

has anyone tried these windows: http://www.crlaurence.com/crlapps/s...103&History=30587:21889:16124:21889:2089&Pom=

came across the manufacturer on the sportsmobile website. with all the headaches associated with Seitz windows, I wondered if this would be an alternative.

 

[tacr2man]

If you are going to sit in a box and look at monitors, you could save yourself a bundle stay home and look at webcams

an opening window gives you so much more sensory input , which is worth a wipe in the morning with a chamois leather JMHO