M416 hub info

[Shakey]

OK, I'm hesitant to post here because frankly, your tone is about as unappreciative as I've heard in a while... but here goes:

I'm only unappreciative of those that relay 2nd (or worse) hand information and don't know what they are talking about. That doesn't help anyone, but it's a lot of what goes on around here. This place has some good information, but it's buried beneath heaps and heaps of useless info.

Regarding the bolt pattern, Dexter sells part number 008-247-005 which is a 10 x 2-1/4 inch hub and drum assembly with a 5x4-1/2 inch lug pattern using 1/2 inch studs to go with the electric trailer brakes referenced above. Yes, it is a cable actuated parking brake. No, it does not come with a cable or handle.

Whether it will fit your particular wheel without spacers depends on the wheel you are using. Generally aluminum wheels on Jeeps (for example) have such a small center hole they don't fit over the hub center/dust cap on the axle's hub. There is no way anyone here can say if yours will fit.

I just got off the phone with Dexter, they were very helpful. Part numbers 23-86 and 23-87 are the manual parking brake parts that you can fit to their 10" drums. Unfortunately the center bore/dust cap is about 2 5/8" diameter. Almost every wheel made with a 5x4.5 bolt pattern has a 1 7/8" center bore. Dexter tells me that due to a patent issue, they can't make their center bore 1 7/8". So the short answer is that no one makes an axle with a manual parking brake, 5x4.5" bolt pattern that will fit a Jeep wheel. You are forced to run spacers (and there are threads here that show how to do that).

At this point, there is absolutely no value in me ordering an aftermarket axle, and I'm not sure why that's the popular board suggestion every time someone asks an axle related question. If I want to keep the parking brake and run a 5x4.5 wheel, I have to run spacers with both the stock and aftermarket axles. I can't believe that's the case, but it is.

my 2c... I do hope it meets with your approval

Absolutely, you've clearly done some of this and know what you're talking about. Others should learn from that.

 

[Shakey]

That's because we have heard the same request SO many times...the horse is pretty well dead for most of us by now.

But sadly, the answer wasn't out there. The request is out there, but the answer is always "just buy a Dexter or AAA axle." But, to me, that's not getting the job done because you lose the parking brake. I'll never use electric brakes, the axle + cargo is ~1,000 pounds for what I do. But I use the parking brake every day.

The general consensus is to add electric brakes which removes the ability to retain the factory axle. Add to that the idea that many "flip" to a spring-over and it isn't much more work to have a brand new axle with all new components. The Dexter axle with "both" brakes is just icing at that point.

It's not "icing" for me because I have to run spacers to fit any wheel that fits my 5x4.5 Jeep. If I have to run spacers, I might as well keep my stock axle and run spacers to just convert the bolt pattern. The value of just buying a Dexter/AAA axle is that it's ~$160. But then add the required spacers for another ~$100 and the value isn't there. I also won't do a spring over, I drag mine across the trails and like the low COG.

I do hope the hub you are looking for exists, and you are able to use your choice of wheels. Are you matching the rims on the TJ? Or maybe using the original TJ rims?

I don't think it does. The stock M416 axle and the Dexter/AAA axles all have about the same size center bore/dust cap size of ~2 5/8". Swapping hubs doesn't change that. I'd love to be able to run any 5x4.5 wheel (aftermarket or OEM Jeep), but now realize I can't do that without spacers (I could do it with no brakes at all though).

You seem to enjoy the research/figuring out side of this so I'll only mention this casually...the spacers may actually help center the tire over the centerline of the hub when using some wheels, depending on the offset of the wheel. This stresses the bearings less in the (very) long run. This is more true for rims designed for IFS applications with deep backsets like a Tacoma, as opposed to rims for a Scout, for example.

My wheels (at least OEM Jeep, and many aftermarket) are hub centric, so they actually need the right sized hub. That's why, for example, Spydertrax spacers also have the 1 7/8" hub, they continue to be hub centric. But you can't use Spydertrax spacers with the stock M416 or Dexter/AAA axle (that has a parking brake) because the center bore/dust shield is too big. So the spacers that will work would necessarily be lug centric, so in this case it's really not that great unless you also switched to lug centric wheels. But given the load is relatively low, you probably wouldn't have problems. It's still not the right way to do it though.

 

[Shakey]

But I haven't given up completely. He appears to have done it, but on a Canadian M101:

http://www.savagesun4x4.com/m101_military_jeep_trailer_2.html

 

[njtaco]

But I haven't given up completely. He appears to have done it, but on a Canadian M101:

http://www.savagesun4x4.com/m101_military_jeep_trailer_2.html

It seems his parts list has a pair 5x5.5 hubs/drums... is there a reference to the 5x4.5 hubs/drums there too?

Oh, and I think the ebay reference I made earlier was for 6x5.5 (Tacoma for example). This is consistent with your conversation with Dexter Axle, of course.

 

[Errant]

Thank you, Shakey and njtaco for hammering that out. I've often wondered about getting my M100 hubs to match my DI, but always end up with that same, "just buy a new axle" response, which really doesn't work for me since I would very much like to keep my hand brake.

 

[Shakey]

It seems his parts list has a pair 5x5.5 hubs/drums... is there a reference to the 5x4.5 hubs/drums there too?

Oh, and I think the ebay reference I made earlier was for 6x5.5 (Tacoma for example). This is consistent with your conversation with Dexter Axle, of course.

He did convert to 5x5.5, but he converted from the odd 5x4 size. Given those axles (whatever the Canadian military is using?) start with a smaller pattern than I need, it at least gives me some hope that a conversion to 5x4.5 is a possibility.

 

[jeeepguy]

Rock Monster wheels have a 2.895" center bore... you could use those with Part numbers 23-86 and 23-87

 

[Shakey]

Thanks for the tip, but at $460/wheel for the Rock Monsters, there are other more cost effective solutions. But that's definitely an option.

 

[Gueon]

This is a pretty old thread but curious what you finally did to match the hubs to your bolt pattern without swapping out the entire axle.