EarthRoamer XV-JP "Northwest Edition"

[mhiscox]

Haf-E, you are correct in that re-negotiated contract was needed. There have been, in fact, about 8 or so various contracts written. The last contract states a revised end date of May 23rd, which Mike did not abide by. Perhaps Mike felt that it was acceptable to break the contract, since he is the person that wrote each one.

I appreciate the time of anyone who reviews the contract posted above. As the comments have shown, I think a careful reading will give plenty of information that will be useful for people hoping to understand the customer relationship I had with Dion. Note carefully the sections that unequivocally state how Red Cannon was an independent contractor doing work for hire.

I did not expect Dion to do his work with only the $10,000 I gave him. The contract clearly states that the money was only to buy equipment and that all labor and other costs were the responsibility of Red Cannon. At the time that I signed on to help, Dion misrepresented that he had a wealthy investor (going so far as to give me the name) who had given him substantial funding. The XV-JP was, as stated, provided only to give him a practical way to make his prototype, and it's really been the pits to have had this good deed/no-benefit-to-me relationship turned against me.

There were NOT eight contracts. What Dion posted above is the sole contract. The reference to May 23rd is from an e-mail and has nothing to do with the contract. From that e-mail, here is the only mention of the May 23rd delivery date:

I have accepted a delayed date of on or before May 23, 2016 to receive the completed Jeep back from you. I’ve agreed to this new date primarily so that you can travel to the Overland Expo West show to exhibit the finished Jeep. However, should you decide not to attend, the date remains and you will make the completed Jeep available for me to pick up at your company’s location or some other place we agree to. I will not be agreeing to any further extensions and, should the Jeep not be completed to a high standard by May 23 at the latest, I will turn the matter over to an attorney for resolution.

I was entitled to undo this previous extension once Dion told me that he was not going to exhibit at Overland Expo West and that I needed to give him another $20,000 before he could complete the truck. The contract specifies that:

If at any time during the agreement Red Cannon concludes that it cannot adequately modify the cabin and Jeep within the $10,000 budget, Red Cannon shall return the Jeep to an operable condition and the Jeep, including any parts and supplies paid for but not yet installed, is to be returned to Hiscox, the arrangements for such return to be negotiated should the situation arise.

This is a clause of the contract that I could and should have implemented many months earlier, but it wasn't that I had the photographs that I realized the no substantial work had been done since the summer.

I could go on, but there's probably no point. I am flabbergasted that he would post this contract for you to review, particularly with legal action hanging over his head. But I'm glad he did; it seems very damaging to him.

And should Dion next post or cite a bunch of encouraging and supportive e-mails he has from me, remember that because of the misrepresentations he made about progress, expositions, unveilings, delivery dates and all, I had imagined that the Jeep was, since last year, close to being ready to return. I was his good buddy until he told me in February that I'd have to come up with another $20,000 to get my vehicle back in finished condition. That was when I decided to hire a photographer to truly evaluate what was going on, but even when I said I wouldn't pay the money and needed to take it back, he was cooperative. It is only after I reported to this forum that he had ruined the valuable and well-appreciated XV-JP Northwest Edition that the relationship went to hell.

 

[Haf-E]

I don't agree with your scenario as you present it. Dion entered into an agreement with Mike and he should have completed the agreement - if he could not then he should understand that he bears the responsibility for not completing it. That is what a contract means.

If you do the math here - I think it might help to see how others view the situation.

Mike contributed: Use of his Jeep camper to help build a prototype for over 9 months "rent free". He also allowed it to be disassembled and modified. He also paid $10,000 up front.

Red Cannon contributed: Some fiberglass work on extending the nose 8 inches and filling in the side window position. Also disassembled the camper in a unprofessional manner (cut wires, plumbing, no apparent marking / labeling).

I don't believe that the work completed on the body of the camper represents "1000's of hours" or would have cost $10,000 to have done. If that is the amount of time and what it cost then Red Cannon certainly has no future.

As for the roof - the decision by Red Cannon to use it to create the plug was unfortunate - A better decision would have been to have modified it to fit the longer cabin. Once the decision was made to cut it up, the project should have been kept going until a roof was completed to allow "closing" of the cabin. If that was not possible to complete then Red Cannon has to suffer the consequences of that poor decision.

I would be curious to hear how the $10,000 was spent. That's a lot of money for jeep parts like a bumper and a new stove?

From my perspective, it appears that Mike was generous to provide his jeep and cash - and that Dion was not capable or focused enough on delivering what was agreed. Again, if this was just an issue of the quality of workmanship or even finishing the last 20% of the build - that would be one thing. But this is much more than that - the vehicle is unusable and the $10,000 was spent. Red Cannon did not deliver anything per the contract.

 

[adam88]

Everybody take note - What Dion's wife is doing here is trying to muddle the facts to the point where no one believes anything and people just come to the conclusion of "This belongs in the courts".

It's politician style. Confuse, lie, and claim total innocence and angelic like behavior. She comes on here to pain Dion as the poor innocent man who was just trying to live his dream out. She talks about the charities they donate to. She says they are just a small town business and implies that Mike is just a bitter old man sitting behind his computer.

Jen Kranz must enjoy US politics because she is acting like Donald Trump, launching a full blown smear campaign against Mike.

Oh, and what happened to the facebook page? She claims it was HACKED!. Ridiculous. No one here believes that for one second.

For those who have trouble seeing through the fog, here's all you need to know... who got screwed worse? Mike's jeep was arguably worth what, $70,000 before this? Now, as it sits, it's worth what, maybe $20,000? So Mike lost $50k on the jeep, plus $10k in cash, plus another $10k probably on transporation costs, photographer, lawyer fees and more. And then how much time has Mike lost?

Meanwhile, what has Dion lost? His time. Just his time. Which isn't worth much I imagine. He hasn't even lost any money in material costs I imagine because of the 10k of Mike's money used. So while Dion will sit here and try and say he is the true victim, just look at the facts. BOTH MIKE AND DION are out "time" spent on this, but Mike is also out $70,000 at least if not more.

So again... whenever you are in doubt in life about which party is right and which party is wrong, simply look at who has lost more and you will get your answer.

 

[thethePete]

I'd like to point out that being "good samaritans" or whatever, and claiming to be good people that never wronged anyone does not equate to being financially savvy or business smart. Most of this story has holes big enough to drive a Jeep through.

Also, it's awfully convenient that you claim hacker the second your Facebook page starts getting attention over here. I can't see that it's possible to "hack" your Facebook page other than to modify it by gaining administrative access; in which case, why would someone intent on damaging your reputation choose to make the damaging info unavailable?

Furthermore, if this really is Dion's wife, then his inability to coherently and competently defend himself in this matter speaks volumes about his abilities to run a business, or even conduct himself in the adult world.

 

[Every Miles A Memory]

Anybody around here remember the "Wenzel" affair on Pirate?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-********-chat-classics/399203-d60-rear-4-88s-35-spline.html

Things are going to go sideways for Red Cannon really quick if they don't make some amends. Its not going to take long for a google search of Red Cannon to show this thread at the top which of course will drive away prospective stereo install customers. Internet exposure works both ways Mr Tesla.

It looks like the Red Cannon facebook page is already down...

Dude, why did you post this link? I CANNOT stop reading it. My wife and I are both laughing so hard!!! Someone should cross post this to Pirate or just get the dude that found all the info on the main guy to do some research on Dion

 

[thethePete]

You're proud of the fact that your husband got himself involved in a deal, knowing full well that he could not possibly hope to complete it to the terms of his agreement? This whole mess is something you walked into with eyes wide open, and now you're getting upset that there are reprecussions to the actions you took.

You're right about one thing. You're not the victims here.

 

[mhiscox]

I wrote my post about the contract prior to the Kranz's "timeline" and the "there was no roof" posts. I'm not going to refute most of what they posted. People who know me from my time here will not put any credence in their criticisms, and neutrals will be able to review the situation and make up their own mind.

There was a roof; it kept the rain off of me many times. The contract clearly states that the $10,000 I gave was for equipment; none was purchased and the fact that the body alone was worth $10,000 is irrelevant. (Not to mention that it had a body when given to him, a nice shiny silver one.) Comments in the timeline about how I encouraged Dion to post information and photos to this forum were advice to help him promote his new business. The Kranz's "clarifying timeline" stops about half-a-year ago, prior to Dion's proposed unveiling of the finished Jeep at the SEMA show.

The statement about me knowing they did not have an investor is wrong; I was told they had the investor, and I also have a December 2 e-mail from Jen Kranz telling me that they didn't tell me when the investor pulled out because I would have taken the Jeep back. There is no mention of the $15,000 loan they got from me to make the numerous molds necessary for serial production, a loan on which they made not one monthly repayment, and with which they didn't make but the one unfinished roof mold.

I did nothing, nor suggested anything be done, to their Facebook page. I am not trying to shut down their business and ruin their family. Indeed, it is to my advantage that they have a lot of money. However, I want it to be made with car stereo installations and detailing; I do not want anyone else to lose money having an expedition camper built by Dion Kranz, dba Red Cannon Expedition, as there is no evidence he could do so.

I'll be grateful for anyone who takes the time to analyze the contract and Dion's execution of it, and I'll be eager to supply any correspondence that seems germane to the issues. But if I start to go over every point that Dion considers justification for his actions, it will ruin this important thread and possibly get the thread locked by a thus-far tolerant moderator. I will, though, close with the obvious: Having the Kranzes continually portray themselves as blameless, while working hard to convince people that the ruin of the EarthRoamer Jeep is my fault, is not a just karmic result for agreeing to help Dion's prepare a prototype Red Cannon camper.

Given that I've had a lot of advice to take a deep breadth and try to get over it, the last thing I needed was Dion's reappearance on this forum. Going forward, please do not take my lack of a defense to comments he might post as meaning there's any accuracy in them. It's just better if I let the Kranz's explain themselves and perhaps, now that the contract is available, people can accurately determine how well Red Cannon did in fulfilling its obligations. I assure you though, that nothing in the contract or correspondence suggests that it was okay for Kranz to return a demolished and unusable vehicle in place of an excellent and valuable one, which is a fair one-sentence summary of my complaint against him.

---

And, BTW, now that my address is available, I'll be expecting holiday cards from all of you. (Which is an attempt at humor surrounding a really sleazy move in revealing my family's home address. In case you are curious, I do indeed have theirs.)

 

[Haf-E]

It is unfortunate that this situation has turned out the way it has. I have been involved with a number of start-ups and some were successful, some were not. Often the amount of time invested is not understood by people on the outside of the venture.

The key thing here is that you should stop blaming others and take responsibility for your decisions and actions. By not doing so you are only digging the hole deeper as they say. While I am sure that Dion has put a lot of time into starting the business - it is clear that he has not spent very much time working on Mike's jeep or it would not have been in such a poor condition when it was returned. It is also clear that Red Cannon was not clear on the progress being made or the condition of the build otherwise Mike would have pulled the plug on the project much earlier.

Lots of start-ups fail every day. Lots of contracts are not completed acceptably. How it is handled is the real test - do you act with integrity and do your best to minimize the damages? Or do you stall, mislead and blame others? That is what makes the difference between winning and loosing - I have had failure become opportunities because of how it was handled.

I hope you and Dion can learn from this situation and be successful with your future endeavors.

 

[adam88]

If it's so easy to build a $100K vehicle with $10k, why don't any of you take the challenge and do it? I don't see why Mike wouldn't agree to donate his Jeep to prove Dion wrong. Everyone on this portal can collectively work together to pay for and develop Mike's Jeep for him.

I'm well aware at how others view the situation. I've provided as much information as I can. I'm exhausted with this. It's pointless for us to continue posting. We have nothing to gain from this thread, we never did. Mike will continue to paint the picture as if we are villains. We are just regular people. Dion has worked 16+ hours a day since the start of this venture. If any of you can imagine dealing with a demanding "customer" while at the same time starting a business and everything involved with it, we are beyond exhausted. I have applied for numerous rounds of investment funding. We have taken out personal loans and sold our vehicle to try to get Mike's vehicle completed. We didn't just sit back, take his money, rip apart his Jeep, not keep him in the loop, and then just say F it! It'll be fun to send Mike's Jeep back unfinished! We have exhausted all resources, when we didn't start out with much in the first place. Neither of us come from wealthy or supportive families. We don't have parents we can call on and say "hey, we can't find investors for this terrible deal we got into, can you pay for the build?" We sold our stuff, took out a loan, weren't allowed to start a GoFund me campaign..what were we to do? I'm not claiming we are victims. I'm just telling it like it is. I'm not sure what Mike expects with his legal action. We've already been bled dry. He knows this. Our only asset is our building, which cannot be sold until our 2 year development deal is fulfilled. Any action he were to take is just to spite us and punish us. Mike is aware of the permanent illness I have acquired recently due to the stress, which is just another reason his slander is incredibly hurtful to us. Look..we truly tried to find the funds to put it all together, but it didn't happen and Mike didn't want to pay for it. Shame on us for being poor! What he wanted from the start was an audience and a story. He got it.

Now, as a mother, I politely ask that everyone leave our family alone. We've suffered a tremendous amount over the last 2 years. It is the honest truth that we cannot take much more. My goal in posting was to expose the truth and the person that Mike truly is and to hopefully stop the malicious attacks against us and our business. Some may see him as a saint (the way we used to at the beginning) that "donated" his vehicle and money to help struggling entrepreneurs. I wish I could say his intentions were pure. But they were not. Looking closely, anyone can see the holes in his posts and the contracts. Anyone that pieces together our story + connecting with Mike, the multiple changes, Mike's direction for "our prototype" can see the story for what it truly is. Our business as a expedition vehicle manufacturer is over, thanks to Mike's decision to slander us on the web. Dion may choose to post on here further, but I will not. Mike's legal action will most likely result in us dissolving our business and selling everything that we have worked so hard to acquire and build over the last 8 months. But you know what? It's only 8 months. I am unbelievably proud of what my husband and I have accomplished in that small time frame. In the end, our family will remain together and that is all that truly matters.

Jen



Editing to add: Yes, our Facebook page was hacked and deleted. The Facebook page was my responsibility. Had I have wanted to delete it, I would have taken the time to save customer information. I was not given the chance. Our only form of communication with our local customers is now gone. Which, I'm sure, was the point in erasing it.

I am appauled by your lack of willingness to take any responsibility for this matter. It's all Mike's fault, MIKE MIKE MIKE! The evil man behind the computer you sent you his Jeep and $10,000 cash and allowed you to rip it apart. Somehow you and your crazy husband have convinced yourselves he was trying to take advantage of you and was up to no good. ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!! Do you not take ownership of anything? How hard is it for you to come on here and simply say "We got in way over our heads. We under quoted Mike. We screwed up. We ran out of money." Instead you have to blame him? What did he do wrong?

Further to that... my god... you say your company is 8 months old, what did you do to deserve a free jeep to use as a prototype and $10,000 cash? And all the bank loans? And the help from your community? And the town's help? So many people have given you so much help. And now you are going to fold up and just run away, probably move to another town and start over fresh again and screw more people out of money. You know what that sounds like? Con artists. Just because you've got kids and because Dion works 16 hour days doesn't mean you are good at business.

And despite all of your rants and "poor me" stories, you still haven't told us where the $10,000 went that Dion gave you. Tell us, where did the $10,000 go? Where is it on the Jeep right now? Tell Mike so he can go and take photographs of it and show us where his $10,000 went. You can't, and you won't, because that $10,000 probably went to pay for your bills, or your building, or your tools, or your kids clothing, or god knows what else. No... no... I am done here, this is ridiculous. Mike, how could you ever have signed an agreement with these morons?

 

[adam88]

You're proud of the fact that your husband got himself involved in a deal, knowing full well that he could not possibly hope to complete it to the terms of his agreement? This whole mess is something you walked into with eyes wide open, and now you're getting upset that there are reprecussions to the actions you took.

You're right about one thing. You're not the victims here.

Indeed. And they better tread lightly here because they could turn this case from a civil one into a criminal one. Not being able to complete a contract is one thing, but suggesting you took money under false pretenses, well, that's fraud.

 

[kmlacroix]

Regardless of the type of customer Mike may or may not be, as a business owner you had the responsibility of safeguarding Mikes property. It is not your customers fault for your business's success or failure. Just admit you screwed up.

 

[adam88]

There is no mention of the $15,000 loan they got from me to make the numerous molds necessary for serial production, a loan on which they made not one monthly repayment, and with which they didn't make but the one unfinished roof mold.[/I][/COLOR]

So you've given them $25,000?

I'm going to be sick.

Is any of this covered by indemnity agreements, or is the loan and the contract solely in Red Cannon Expedition's name? In other words, if they go out of business, can you personally sue Dion and Jen for their personal assets, or will you only be able to go after the assets owned by the company?

Either way, ugh. I would start putting lien's on stuff ASAP if I were you. The building seems like the most logical asset. From what I understand, the building may have some equity in it? Even if that equity is "locked" for two years, you should be able to put a lien on the building.

 

[mhiscox]

Is any of this covered by indemnity agreements, or is the loan and the contract solely in Red Cannon Expedition's name? In other words, if they go out of business, can you personally sue Dion and Jen for their personal assets, or will you only be able to go after the assets owned by the company?

The contract for the work on the Jeep is with Red Cannon; the promissory note for the loan is with Anthony Dion Kranz and Jennifer Lynn Krantz.

 

[squeezer]

snip' Tell us, where did the $10,000 go? Where is it on the Jeep right now? Tell Mike so he can go and take photographs of it and show us where his $10,000 went. You can't, and you won't, because that $10,000 probably went to pay for your bills, or your building, or your tools, or your kids clothing, or god knows what else.... Snip'

OK Red Cannon here is your shot at making your case.

If all the things you say are true you will have receipts or records as to how the $10K was spent. As a fresh startup you might not have 100% of it accounted for but please share with the board some basic accounting. Extra credit if you tracked hours spent in each operation because that becomes important for cost accounting estimates when ramping up for production.
While putting that together how was the $15K allocated...?
Extra credit if you can outline the plan you had in place to build the 2016 Model that was maybe going to be up for raffle.

Your page suggested the Darien would be turn key at around $140K OK cool, what does the cost breakdown of this vehicle look like. You don't need to be detailed just give us the basics

Base Jeep
Purchased Equipment
Materials
Direct labor
Indirect Labor
Overhead
Markup
Warranty Costs
Etc.

You have to had this all put together for an investor to look at so share it with us...

 

[thebigblue]

I´m sorry, but this thread has turned into something that, in my opinion, really does not belong in a forum like this. And I'm not choosing sides here, I don't need to do so, just saying.