locker/lsd questions

coreys88burban

Adventurer
i have a 3/4ton burb with a 10 bolt front end and 14 bolt rear with 410 or 411 gears. i was wanting to get a ARB Airlocker in the front and a eaton limited slip rear.

-will that work? or do i have to get lockers in both? whats best in snow for the rear axle? locker or lsd? truck is for everything from rainy DD to deep mud/rocks/snow and towing
 

Larry

Bigassgas Explorer
ARB's are the shizzzzle and well worth the money. If your budget allows, I would recommend an ARB for the front and rear. I just help my pal Bill install a front and rear set of ARB's in a Dodge Ram Charger with a Dana 44 front axle and Dana 60 rear axle last weekend after his front Auburn D44 came apart and did some major damage to the axle housing. The Auburn only had about 500 4x4 miles on it no less. I run a Detroit locker in the rear and a Detroit TrueTrac in the front of my Chevy but, I have to say....you can't beat the performance and driveablity of a selectable locker. A LSD in the rear is fine for all weather driving like you are talking about but may not be aggressive enough when off-road, while a full-on locker in the rear such as my Detroit locker can be too aggressive for a daily driver. None the less, I would pass on anything Auburn!

Pictures from our Dodge project.

Front D44 Auburn coming apart, replaced with an ARB along with a lot of axle housing rehab

5150503998_2e0d92718c_z.jpg


5149896573_270c1aa9df_z.jpg


5126290023_88050e7dff_z.jpg


5126895966_0514378a91_z.jpg


5149899785_ea2e5a6050_z.jpg


Rear D60 ARB installed. We, unfortunately, didn't snap any pictures of the front ARB install.

5149897669_752203bf00_z.jpg
 

jcbrandon

Explorer
...-will that work? or do i have to get lockers in both? whats best in snow for the rear axle? locker or lsd? truck is for everything from rainy DD to deep mud/rocks/snow and towing

I've been driving a truck with limited slip in the rear and selectable lockers in both axles for the past couple of years. I like it. If you have the choice, I think that is the best option for a "do everything" truck. I know several guys with a limited slip in the rear and a locking front. It works and they are happy with it. Both tools have their place. For the few times when you need locked diffs at both ends a limited slip in the rear won't do. But those times are rare.

If you are spending the money or the time to install something in both axles, the uptick to go limited slip in the rear and two selectable lockers is not a big jump. If you are still opening up both housings and can't get a limited slip and selectable rear, then give up the limited slip and just get the locking diff.
 

matt s

Explorer
This answers a question I have been embarrassed to ask. Can you have a LS and also a selectable in the same axle. Sounds like you can. Cool stuff.

To the OP, I have thought for some time that LS in the rear with a selectable up front is a pretty desirable setup.
 

bftank

Explorer
are you still planning to put a cummins in it? if so i wouldn't put money into your axles, you would need to change them out any ways.

i swapped out my rear 10 bolt for a 14 bolt full floater out of a 3/4t truck. i would suggest you do the same and put in a detroit locker or arb. do the rear locker before you do the front. the ff 14 will be fine with a cummins. i would not suggest the sf for a cummins.

having a limited slip will help the front axles and hubs last longer than if you put in a locker. not as harsh of a shock.

i would like to have selectables front and rear in mine. open diffs handle better on snowy roads.

with a detroit you stand a better chance of not being able to steer in the ice and snow.
 

chasespeed

Explorer
Okay... ANYTIME you're talking cummins, you're talking some serious weight.

You want at 14bff rear, and a D60 in the front. Period.

Go back, and STUDY Spur's build.

I can tell you, when I removed the 24v, and put the 12v in my truck, we used a damn forklift.... were're talking about 1200-1400lbs of engine...

Second, you have to consider the rest of the drivetrain. Think of WHERE you want your weak points...and build for that.

If you look, you can find a 14bFF with the gov lok, and the front D60 with a LS of some sort.

If you go locker, go selectable. You dont have to.... you can certainly run open, or limited slip...

Matt, there was a LS w/ selectable locker, the ECTED..... i think was the name.

This isnt a complex swap or build, BUT, it needs to be planned to the 'T'.

And, with a diesel, dual exhaust is NOT needed.

4" is more than enough. I would just find a way to keep it tucked up high, and in....

Chase
 

poriggity

Explorer
Yes.. I agree. If you are putting a cummins in that truck, do not waste any money on the 10 bolt axle.... You WILL break it with that amount of weight and torque of the motor.
Scott
 

Spur

Adventurer
I'll repost my specs in case somebody hasn't seen em.

Boyce Dana 60 front with ARB
14FF rear w/ Detroit


Hindsight is 20/20. When I decided on a Detroit for the rear, I didn't know I was going to be moving to Colorado. Now I wish I had LS and an ARB. It's an upgrade I'll probably do next year. The Detroit will chirp the tires if you give it too much throttle in a corner, especially in 2nd. I try to keep it in 3rd whenever possible. If that happened on a snowy/icy road, it would certainly up the pucker factor.

And yes, it's heavy. The Cummins damn near broke a 2000 lb engine hoist. It was scary. A forklift with a rating of 3000 lbs struggles to lift a front corner. Truck weighs 6500 lbs, but it's gutted. I expect it to be about 8000 full loaded.
 
Last edited:

bftank

Explorer
stay away from the 14 bolt gov loc axle. these are called govbombs for a reason. they also use a different carrier than what the detroit or arb is made for.


with my burb the 14 bolt is temporary until i get a dana 70 built for it. i am using the dana 70 because i can put 3.54 gears in it. coupled with 35's and a nv 4500 should make for good mileage. the 14 bolt, 60 combo will only go down to 3.73 gears.
 

Spur

Adventurer
with my burb the 14 bolt is temporary until i get a dana 70 built for it. i am using the dana 70 because i can put 3.54 gears in it. coupled with 35's and a nv 4500 should make for good mileage. the 14 bolt, 60 combo will only go down to 3.73 gears.

That's a cool idea. Look forward to hearing how it works out.
 

gm4x4lover

Observer
Hindsight is 20/20. When I decided on a Detroit for the rear, I didn't know I was going to be moving to Colorado. Now I wish I had LS and an ARB. It's an upgrade I'll probably do next year. The Detroit will chirp the tires if you give it too much throttle in a corner, especially in 2nd. I try to keep it in 3rd whenever possible. If that happened on a snowy/icy road, it would certainly up the pucker factor.

My detroit is fine in the back of my k5 with a 14 bolt. I really have to jump on it to get the tires to chirp. It is mostly invisible until then. Its also not an issue in the snow either. Like larry i also have a lunch box locker in the front and i would rather an arb for select ability reasons.
 

Rot Box

Explorer
Regardless of the Cummins swap Suburbans are just plain heavy :Wow1: I would have a really hard time spending the money to put any sort of traction aid in a 10 bolt front especially in a Suburban. These days it seems D60 are going for under $1K and I would very much look into that option. If you must "lock" the 10 bolt front you may want to look into upgraded axle shafts...

For LSD's I wouldn't spend any money unless it was towards a Detroit Tru-Trac. These things work very well and last a very long time as they have no clutches to worry about burning out. Just my .02.
 

brianjwilson

Some sort of lost...
Definitely go with selectable in the front.

I had aussie lockers (automatic like a detroit locker) in the front and rear of a truck and driving in 4x4 in snow was a little tricky. Any tight maneuvering in 4x4 was tricky really, and you could really feel the steering tighten up even if you were light on the throttle. I carried a spare axleshaft (cv joints) and gear oil all the time because I figured it was going to break something soon. In 2wd you couldn't tell it was there as no torque was applied. I found myself switching to 2wd more often to maneuver on tight trails or driving on tight streets in the snow.
Now I have an Eaton E-locker in the front of my F150 and like it so far. No extra stress in most situations (open diff when unlocked), no tight steering when disengaged, but full traction when I need it.


For the rear axle, it depends on your use and preferences.

Personally I hate driving an open rear diff with a passion, whether on dry pavement, wet pavement, snow, etc. So I have never opted for a selectable rear locker. There are a lot of situations that call for more traction than an open diff, but not fully locked.
Limited slip is great on the road, good on gravel, dirt, sand, light snow but when you REALLY need the traction it isn't going to be there for you. It is no fun to be stuck in 18-24" of snow, or have a rear tire off the ground and see that your limited slip is effectively useless. However a front locker will help make up for that some. A true-trac is the only limited slip I would spend the money on.
My favorite setup for the rear axle was the aussie locker. I'm running a rear Detroit locker now and it basically functions the same from the driver's perspective but it is not as smooth as the aussie. Yes it is going to chirp tires when you turn tight and you're heavy on the throttle. Yes it is going to allow you to kick the rear end around if you romp on it in the rain/snow/mud, but it is very predictable once you get use to it. In my opinion it is more predictable than a limited slip on slippery surfaces. You get a feel for it and know exactly what it takes to lock it. On the trail they are great as well. It unlocks when you are turning tight and maneuvering, but locks when you are getting into the throttle and need the traction. No need to bother flipping switches, running a compressor all the time, etc. Due to the harshness (and backlash) though, most people would not like them in a daily driver. For what it's worth, if Aussie offered a lunchbox locker for my rear axle I would swap it in to replace the detroit in a heartbeat because it was so much smoother.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,885
Messages
2,879,166
Members
225,450
Latest member
Rinzlerz
Top