1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton and diesel vs. gas

[coreys88burban]

this is all just my opinion...
never buy new its not worth it and as said already 2007 and newer diesels are not nice to car guys..way to much emissions crap and laws and the motors are terrible compared to thier prediccecors... 6.4 vs 7.3 and 6.7 vs 5.9

my dream for my truck would be to have a 1st gen ram's 5.9 cummins and allison 1000 built from suncoast with a dana 60 front and ORD's new Coilover front end.

gas engines sound way better when they are built and rev higher and are always faster on the strip (with the same power to weight ratio) take a 2500hd 8.1 silverado vs its matching duramax truck get both to 500hp and the gasser will be a faster 1/4 mile runner but it wont last as long get as good of milage or pull anywhere near as good as the diesel.

i like this-
REAL TRUCKS DONT HAVE SPARK PLUGS!

and this
MOPAR OR NO CAR!..i translate it into muscle car (gas engine V8) or no car!

 

[Rbertalotto]

I've owned a bunch of pickup truckd Ford, GM, Jeep! and IH!..........But the best truck by far that I ever owned is my 2006 Dodge 3/4 Heavy Duty Diesel...No comparison. On the highway, it never ceases to amaze me how it simply gets up and flies from 65-90mph. No downshifting, no bogging..no nothing..but the next thing I know I'm going 90mph!......And it will do this with a 5K pound trailer! Friends that experience this for the first time can't believe it......"I thought diesels were slow....." is what I always hear.

My truck has 120K miles. Change oil every 10-15K with synthetic. The only maintenance issue I've had is one ball joint at 90K and a rear u-Joint at 110K...not one other issue.

18-20mph on the highway.......15-17mph when towing a 10K trailer.......Amazing!

I did swap out the front axle stubs for a free wheeling system and I added a "Juice with Attitude" because everyone needs 750 Ft pounds of torque with nearly 500HP...........:victory:

 

[chasespeed]

this is all just my opinion...
never buy new its not worth it and as said already 2007 and newer diesels are not nice to car guys..way to much emissions crap and laws and the motors are terrible compared to thier prediccecors... 6.4 vs 7.3 and 6.7 vs 5.9

my dream for my truck would be to have a 1st gen ram's 5.9 cummins and allison 1000 built from suncoast with a dana 60 front and ORD's new Coilover front end.

gas engines sound way better when they are built and rev higher and are always faster on the strip (with the same power to weight ratio) take a 2500hd 8.1 silverado vs its matching duramax truck get both to 500hp and the gasser will be a faster 1/4 mile runner but it wont last as long get as good of milage or pull anywhere near as good as the diesel.

i like this-
REAL TRUCKS DONT HAVE SPARK PLUGS!

and this
MOPAR OR NO CAR!..i translate it into muscle car (gas engine V8) or no car!

Bold statement NOT TRUE by ANY means(well, sound is subjective, I personally think an inline 6 diesel is the best sounding of engines). My Cummins, stock, with a slush box trans, would easily keep up with an unloaded shortbed 1/2 ton witha 360 V8.... towing, NO comparison.

There are PLENTY of diesels pulling less than 12s in the 1/4, big, 4dr, 4wd trucks.....

With 35s, and some rough shifting, I can embarass a lot of cars.......but, I am NOT stock...

I love that I have a 12v now instead of a 24v...(24v had a crack in the block). Its got a BOAT LOAD of torque, spins to 4k if I want to bother, makes more torque from idle than most engines make, gets great mileage...

BUT, Its loud, rattly, and will vibrate your fillings out if you have any. Kinda like my old Ironhead.

Gas vs Diesel... THAT depends on you, your budget, and your needs. If you have a NEED for diesel, get one. If you dont, but, you want one, and can swing the cost of ownership, get one. Not just monetary, but, people complain about the smell, the noise etc, in some areas, if you puff a little smoke, they call in your plate.... You can right now, buy a comparably equiped truck w/o the diesel, for significatnlty less.

Me, I NEED the torque and power.... I tow a lot. I also usually have about 1k lbs in tools and equip in the truck...

There are a lot of pros and cons to both. In fact, my next family rig is going to be a mid-sized SUV, or full size van... but, for my TRUCK, it will always be an oil burner...

Stay away from emissions trucks, they make "more power", but, once they drop the engine in the chassis, and attach all that smog equip, the efficiency goes way down.

Chase

 

[CJW]

Still trying to figure out my next vehicle. At this point I think it would be a Dodge Power Wagon with a Flip Pack. Need to hual the wife, two kids (2 & 7), + two dogs ( Lab & Newfoundland). We will have a small pop-up for long term family camping which I will be upgrading to small hardsided trailer sometime. I currently have a Tacoma, but if I upgrade the trailer, I do not think the V6 will have engough power to pull it comfortably in the mountains.

I can deciede if I want to go with a gas motor in a Power Wagon, or go with a diesel, and get extended expedition range. You can also aftermarket a truck with a small lift, locking differentials, and a winch and get a Power Wagon wanta-be less the sway bar disconnect.

I guess I would like a 1/2 ton diesel, power wagon.

So what help and direction can you give me.

The answer is that you probably can't go wrong with either, though there are things to consider. The PW has one ton axles, 4.56 gears, lockers, 33" tires, winch, skid plates(though I haven't seen personally how beefy they are), and weighs less. The Cummins definitely sounds better, a little better mpg, bigger fuel tank, low end grunt, tows better. Now which of these assets are better to an expo rig?

Strong axles? Yes
Low gears? Yes 4.10's can be had in Cummins, plus the torque of the motor.
Lockers? Yes Can be added to Cummins for significant cost.
33" tires? Yes Can be added to Cummins for extra cost.
Winch? Yes Can be added to Cummins for extra cost.
Skid plates? Yes Can be added to Cummins for extra cost.
Less weight? Yes Can't be subtracted from Cummins front end.
MPG? Yes Cummins will be a little better maybe. New Cummins PU don't get as good as older trucks. Extra tank can be added to PW.
Towing capability? Not so much for expo rig. Campers aren't that heavy.

 

[dragogt]

JMO; But I would stay away from the New diesels..

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/0...reviews-nox-reduction-solutions-for-2010.html

Come 2010, all new diesel-powered pickups will have to meet tougher federal diesel emission standards that will reduce allowable nitrogen oxide levels by 90 percent from today and by 96 percent from 1994.

There are three ways to lower NOx emissions in diesels: The first is exhaust gas recirculation. EGR recirculates a portion of the engine's exhaust back into the engine at a lower temperature. The cooled gases have a higher heat capacity and contain less oxygen than air, lowering combustion temperatures and reducing the formation of NOx. EGR is prevalent in today's clean diesel engines to reduce NOx, but it's not efficient enough in current form to meet 2010 emissions levels.

The third, and newest, approach is selective catalytic reduction using DEF. The urea-based solution (32.5 percent industrial urea and 67.5 percent deionized water) is held in a separate storage tank and injected as a fine mist into the hot exhaust gases. The heat turns the urea into ammonia that - when combined with a special catalytic converter - breaks down the NOx into harmless nitrogen gas and water vapor.

“The 2010 [Ram] Chassis Cabs start with an eight-gallon tank to hold urea,” said Kevin Mets, senior development manager for Dodge trucks. “The eight gallons gives us a good range [approximately 4,000 miles] even though the entire package [DEF plus SCR hardware] weighs about 200 pounds. We don't rob as much payload capacity as a tank that, say, has a capacity of 16 gallons.”

DEF is expected to cost about $2.75 a gallon when pumped at truck stops and other retailers, according to the North American SCR Stakeholders Group, an ad-hoc industry alliance of truck and engine manufacturers, regulatory agencies and associations, and DEF infrastructure partners and suppliers. It will be packaged in many ways including 2.5 gallon jugs, bulk storage and DEF dispensing units.

 

[chnlisle]

Dos Pesos

I love my CTD 2500 but if I we're doing it again I'd get a 1 ton. It's not much more money for a lot more truck. And I think I'll always (always is a long time) own a diesel.

 

[Regcabguy]

I special ordered the last of the 2007 5.9's before the junk came out. All I wanted was an ST,but had to go with the SLT in order to get power seats(a must for me). I minimized any of the foo foo options,getting the manual tranny and transfercase,limited slip,etc. Dave Smith sold me that truck for $30,700. List was $39,453. With help from Carli and Thuren,the sucker handles the camper wt. w/ease. I'm keeping this truck forever.:sombrero:

 

[watz]

Does the diesel fuel or being able to FIND quality fuel ever cross your mind?

I think about times when I am out in the boonies and really wonder about quality of fuel I am adding (that's at a gas station, which seems to be able to tolerate less than stellar fuel better than a diesel).

Diesel is so picky about quality, water in fuel and dirt in fuel, you can read it on any forum about using a station that has a high amount of traffic. It seems that every diesel owner I know has had to repair an injector or two.

It's rarely covered under warranty too, which yields a nice $300 plus per injector (at least for a Dodge, who knows about those high dollar Ford's and chevy's) I know I can throw an injector in a ISB motor but those V8's are shoe horned in there).

I am leaning gas as my expo rig, merely because of remote stations scare me with the lack of tolerance in the new diesels. Plus what if you want to drive to Mexico, when they rarely have ULSD.... :victory:

 

[bobcat charlie]

Diesels can tollerate crappy fuel IF you run it through a good filter. I added a huge Cat 2Mu filter after the factory 7Mu filter/water separator. I always carry spare filters and a good diesel fuel additive. Another advantage of a per '04 Cummins is that it can run any diesel fuel, not just ULSD. I prefer the 'sulfer rich' deisel, or ULSD w B5, because they lub the injectors better than the ULSD. I also carry 3 20L Nato cans of diesel when exploring...just in case.

 

[SupaRice]

I chose a gas, mostly because I wanted a Dodge 2500 Power Wagon and the Power Wagon only comes with a gas engine (HEMI).... I wanted a Power Wagon since it was pretty much trail ready from the factory. HD e-locked front and rear axles, 15,000lb winch, skids and rock rails, a 2" lift over regular 2500 4x4's, 4.56 gears, etc....

The only things I've added, will add... are diff guards, leveling lift springs, stronger front track bar, and stronger front control arms. I just bought a Bestop SuperTop to camp out of. Wanted something easily removed to retain the use of my truck.


I looked at gas vs diesel. If you tow much, diesel is the way to go. If you don't then the mileage is really a wash given the typical maintenance on a gas is cheaper, and really becomes preference.

 

[TurboChris]

I LOVED my diesel F250....the mileage, the power. But you pay more going in and will get more when (if) you sell.....but don't know about the rest of the country....but here in the west...diesel cost as much or MORE than premium fuel. Used to be diesel was .25 - .50 cents a gallon cheaper than reg but that all changed about 7 years ago....hasn't been cheaper more than temporarily since....and the norm is you'll pay premium gas prices or more.

 

[alexrex20]

I chose a gas, mostly because I wanted a Dodge 2500 Power Wagon and the Power Wagon only comes with a gas engine (HEMI).... I wanted a Power Wagon since it was pretty much trail ready from the factory. HD e-locked front and rear axles, 15,000lb winch, skids and rock rails, a 2" lift over regular 2500 4x4's, 4.56 gears, etc....

The only things I've added, will add... are diff guards, leveling lift springs, stronger front track bar, and stronger front control arms. I just bought a Bestop SuperTop to camp out of. Wanted something easily removed to retain the use of my truck.


I looked at gas vs diesel. If you tow much, diesel is the way to go. If you don't then the mileage is really a wash given the typical maintenance on a gas is cheaper, and really becomes preference.

it's only a 12klb winch. are you sure you own one?

 

[SupaRice]

It's stated as a 12,000lb winch, but it's really 15,000lb. There's a thread somewhere over on dodgetalk in the PW section that talks about this. You know manufactures... "let's under rate it so we don't get sued."


Yeah.... I'm sure

 

[watz]

Diesels can tollerate crappy fuel IF you run it through a good filter. I added a huge Cat 2Mu filter after the factory 7Mu filter/water separator. I always carry spare filters and a good diesel fuel additive. Another advantage of a per '04 Cummins is that it can run any diesel fuel, not just ULSD. I prefer the 'sulfer rich' deisel, or ULSD w B5, because they lub the injectors better than the ULSD. I also carry 3 20L Nato cans of diesel when exploring...just in case.

Can't buy those diesel's anymore. Everything is ULSD.

Well at least not one with under 100k on the clock. Which we all know isn't much for a diesel but it is for the chasis and I am one for exploring the country not the underside of a truck to chase electrical gremilins.... Just saying!:victory:

 

[Mighty Dodge Ram]

People will have varying opinions, but here is mine. The half ton pick ups will be gas and have IFS front axles. And, that's OK for occasional use on mild trails or moderate dirt roads.

I can live with the gas engines. (Cheaper, quiet, but less gas mileage) But, I prefer a solid front axle.

IFS front axles = Gen 3 models. My Gen 2 1/2-ton has a solid axle up front. :Wow1: I think the 1/2-ton trucks can make excellent trail and expedition platforms. Nevertheless, you make several good points that I'm in total agreement with. But I still have serious PW envy. :sombrero: