Any other Vegans?

[pint]

Great post which has started me thinking about becoming vegetarian, or maybe pescetarian? I reeeaallly need to modify my eating/drinking habits. I travel a lot and entertain clients 2 - 4 times each month who expect a nice steakhouse. I grew up in the Midwest where you eat meat with nearly every meal! I truly enjoy a good steak. However, I realize change is needed. I've grown accustom to eating whatever is convenient and tasty! The more I read about what I eat, the more nervous I get for the future. Somehow I need to find the willpower to begin this process...baby steps.

[Scott Brady]

Spressoman is very knowledgable about this topic. Dan might chime in.

[pint]

Cool...I know Dan. He's a helluva cook from what I hear. I'll shoot him a PM to chime in.

[spressomon]

After growing up, like Pint did, in the middle of the country where meat was the center of the meals I, after moving from motorcycles to exclusively bicycles in the early 80's found I needed more efficient fuel and also a healthier lifestyle.

No question about it: Ridding meat from my diet bothered my palate...for a while; after all I had been conditioned to almost 20-years of meat centric meals...and being 1/2 Italian (my stomach might be 100% Italian given how much I love food) doesn't make it any easier either . However, once you move away from a meat based diet you will eventually find eating meat very energy consuming to digest and somewhat off-putting taste (it takes a couple years if you are truly a meat eater today!). As an aerobic and anaerobic athlete it becomes quite easy to discern the differences in a vegan vs. meat diet within your body and hence the craving to eat the best foods for energy creation efficiency.

However I still was surrounded by meat eating friends and family. It was as tough on them as me to accommodate my chosen diet outside my own kitchen. Although some 30-years later it certainly is easier to live the life of a vegan I have chosen one of a more moderate balance overall. I have to admit I love the taste of wild game which is most of my meat calories today. Moderation is the key. If you start by attaining consumption of reasonable portions of meat you will be shocked to find out any meat portion larger than about 3oz is a fraction of what you are used to eating! The palm method (http://dieting.postedpost.com/food-s...n-palm-method/) is a great thing to remember where-ever and what-ever you consume!

For those embarking on ridding meat and animal products from your diet be sure to do your research. You really need a wide variety and balance to attain, especially, the protein power of meat. Like anything you'll get out of it what you put into it. But I see way too many folks, especially younger people, embarking on being vegan without having a clue what their body truly needs with respect to varietal input.

I make and eat all the same vegan recipes I did back in the day...just not so fanatical about it I suppose.

Dan

[AmericaOverland]

For those embarking on ridding meat and animal products from your diet be sure to do your research. You really need a wide variety and balance to attain, especially, the protein power of meat. Like anything you'll get out of it what you put into it. But I see way too many folks, especially younger people, embarking on being vegan without having a clue what their body truly needs with respect to varietal input.

There is no protein power of meat as far as energy goes. That is NOT the fuel source for the human body. Glucose is. Where do you get protein? First, think about where it comes from. Think about animals that don't eat meat - where do they get it? Look at horses - they can outrun you and kill you instantly if you get behind one of their legs. The key is an understanding of amino acids and their usage in forming proteins. The issue with animal products is three-fold.

1) It is a decaying product that starts the process from the instant the animal is killed. Think about the waste products that were held up in the cells and interstitial fluids at the time of death. You're eating THAT, raw or cooked. The reason meat stays red is sodium nitrite. It reduces the rate of botulinal toxin development. It would be a dead color if sodium nitrite was not applied to meat.

2) Cooking it causes certain amino acids that are heat-sensitive to form bonds with one another that cannot be broken apart during digestion, leading to things floating around in your body that has to be treated as waste by-products.

3) Energy conservation. You have higher energy levels on a vegan dietary primarily because you do not have to break down the proteins of animals, which are a completely constructed item, all the way down to amino acids, assuming you eat it raw, and THEN start to build up protein from it into human protein. You expend energy trying to break it down before you can use it, and you do not get energy from it. Instead, you get the addictive rush from eating a steak.

The main source for protein is a vegan dietary consisting mostly of fruit, some veggies, and limited amounts of nuts and seeds. The reason it is is because these things don't require anywhere near the digestion that animal products require.

There is nothing balanced about what you are suggesting. I'm sorry to say that. You're caught in the Pleasure Trap, it looks like. Trust me, it is a !@#$% getting out of. I don't even know if I'm entirely out of it...

If you want a very thorough education on health, this is THE place to go. I read this entire thing as a student in school, back in the day when it existed only in several books going over 1,000 pages.

http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/sitemap.html - since this thing is HUGE, just go ahead and scroll through there, looking for specific topics that interest you for now.

I'm not trying to be the person who is right about everything, but help you avoid the common mistakes that people make in transitioning to different dietaries. Even cooked vegan dietaries are not healthy in the long run because of the salts and cooking/salad oils involved. I found out the hard way that you must follow the Low Fat Raw Vegan path, and you must have good quality food to make it work. Think about how disappointed I was... No more chinese takeout. No more italian food (presents incompatible combination of grains and tomatoes), no more mexican (high fat, and incompatible combination of corn and beans, or beans and rice). It sucks wind because once you open that Pandora's Box of civilized eating, there's pretty much no going back. I know. I've tried for 17 years, validating what I have just written here.

Damn society for springing a life-destroying addiction on us before we are old enough and educated enough to realize what it is we're doing when we take that first bite. But life is what it is. You have to keep going and live the best you can.

[Scott Brady]

There is no protein power of meat as far as energy goes. That is NOT the fuel source for the human body. Glucose is.

Wow, that entire argument neglected the nutritional requirements for building and maintaining skeletal muscle, which is something difficult and complex to achieve as a vegan. Glucose is an ubiquitous fuel source for humans, but does nothing for maintaining and building muscle and maintaining healthy organs and tissues, etc.

Fuel is only a part of the equation.

It is clear that you feel strongly about your dietary choices, but to say Dan is wrong in his reasonable recommendation is completely incorrect and cannot be validated by any respected scientific source. It is purely speculation and justification of your own choices. Be who you want to be, and eat what you want to eat, but spare us the insults and sudo-science.

There is no mainstream scientific evidence that proves a vegan only (or raw for that matter) extends your lifespan- NONE. Trust me, I have researched this at great length. You will find many claims, but they have proven time and again to be anecdotal. In fact, the all-cause death statistics for vegetarians are actually higher than omnivores- much higher (Burr and Sweetnam, 1982) and that vegetarians only had a .11% lower incident of heart desease.

There is no mainstream scientific evidence that proves a vegan diet improves mental or physical performance (in fact, quite the oposite).

As always, the best course of action is moderation and reasonable application of proven dietary methods. These methods may need to be adjusted person to person, but one method can never be applied successfully to all people. It is simply impossible. Japanese people have on average very long lives with diets very lean and mostly with proteins from fish, but so do certain Mediterranean cultures with lots of fatty foods, wine, etc.

I think it is completely reasonable for someone to be vegan for health (allergies, etc.) or ethical reasons, but to say a diet with some organic, lean meat is unhealthy is, well. . . bull

[AmericaOverland]

Wow, that entire argument neglected the nutritional requirements for building and maintaining skeletal muscle, which is something difficult and complex to achieve as a vegan.

<snip>

Please read the information at the link I provided. All the research that was indicated at these links were done a VERY long time ago, a lot of it done at universities and research centers around the world. If you follow the references, you can trace it all the way back. Good luck. It's all I can do.

[Scott Brady]

http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/sitemap.html - since this thing is HUGE, just go ahead and scroll through there, looking for specific topics that interest you for now.

I know you enjoy that website, but there is not a single credible medical or scientific source on that site.

Like I said, please enjoy the personal benefits from the dietary choices you have made. I respect your dietary choices and applaude your commitment.

However, that website and your previous post is filled with inaccurate and potentially dangerous information. Even the site acknowledges this in the first section.

Disclaimer

Information on RawFoodExplained.com is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for the advice provided by your physician or other healthcare professional. You should not use the information on RawFoodExplained.com for diagnosing or treating a health problem or disease, or prescribing any medication or other treatment. You should always speak with your physician or other healthcare professional before any treatment for a health problem.

That disclaimer is there because the majority of the information on that site is not supported by scientific evidence or medical testing. It is purely the collection of opinions, suggestions and personal mantras of the site owners and contributors. Again, there is likely some worthwhile things to be learned there, but there is absolutely no proof that an omnivores diet with small portions of lean meat is unhealthy.

I do not mean to be harsh here but fact is fact.

[AmericaOverland]

No, the disclaimer is on there to cover their butts in the event the AMA and other pleasure-food organizations go after them. They have been targets of such groups before and learned the hard way how to defend themselves. It is sad that they were legally forced to say this. I once knew the people who set up this information in book form and made it into text format many years ago.

Unsubscribed from this thread.

[Scott Brady]

I also want to say that I am absolutely not anti vegan diet, in fact, the opposite. I am working towards smaller portions of meat and from much better sources like Elk (and other game) and away from mass-produced protein sources.

Dan has given me great advice through the years and has resulted in a much more balanced and healthy diet.

What I take exception to is saying that an omnivore's diet with small portions of lean meat is unhealthy for most people - that is simply false.

Back to the discussion of being vegan Rock on ladies and gentleman.