Any other Vegans?

[Scott Brady]

There is no protein power of meat as far as energy goes. That is NOT the fuel source for the human body. Glucose is.

Wow, that entire argument neglected the nutritional requirements for building and maintaining skeletal muscle, which is something difficult and complex to achieve as a vegan. Glucose is an ubiquitous fuel source for humans, but does nothing for maintaining and building muscle and maintaining healthy organs and tissues, etc.

Fuel is only a part of the equation.

It is clear that you feel strongly about your dietary choices, but to say Dan is wrong in his reasonable recommendation is completely incorrect and cannot be validated by any respected scientific source. It is purely speculation and justification of your own choices. Be who you want to be, and eat what you want to eat, but spare us the insults and sudo-science.

There is no mainstream scientific evidence that proves a vegan only (or raw for that matter) extends your lifespan- NONE. Trust me, I have researched this at great length. You will find many claims, but they have proven time and again to be anecdotal. In fact, the all-cause death statistics for vegetarians are actually higher than omnivores- much higher (Burr and Sweetnam, 1982) and that vegetarians only had a .11% lower incident of heart desease.

There is no mainstream scientific evidence that proves a vegan diet improves mental or physical performance (in fact, quite the oposite).

As always, the best course of action is moderation and reasonable application of proven dietary methods. These methods may need to be adjusted person to person, but one method can never be applied successfully to all people. It is simply impossible. Japanese people have on average very long lives with diets very lean and mostly with proteins from fish, but so do certain Mediterranean cultures with lots of fatty foods, wine, etc.

I think it is completely reasonable for someone to be vegan for health (allergies, etc.) or ethical reasons, but to say a diet with some organic, lean meat is unhealthy is, well. . . bull :cow:

 

[AmericaOverland]

Wow, that entire argument neglected the nutritional requirements for building and maintaining skeletal muscle, which is something difficult and complex to achieve as a vegan.

<snip>

Please read the information at the link I provided. All the research that was indicated at these links were done a VERY long time ago, a lot of it done at universities and research centers around the world. If you follow the references, you can trace it all the way back. Good luck. It's all I can do.

 

[Scott Brady]

http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/sitemap.html - since this thing is HUGE, just go ahead and scroll through there, looking for specific topics that interest you for now.

I know you enjoy that website, but there is not a single credible medical or scientific source on that site.

Like I said, please enjoy the personal benefits from the dietary choices you have made. I respect your dietary choices and applaude your commitment.

However, that website and your previous post is filled with inaccurate and potentially dangerous information. Even the site acknowledges this in the first section.

Disclaimer

Information on RawFoodExplained.com is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for the advice provided by your physician or other healthcare professional. You should not use the information on RawFoodExplained.com for diagnosing or treating a health problem or disease, or prescribing any medication or other treatment. You should always speak with your physician or other healthcare professional before any treatment for a health problem.

That disclaimer is there because the majority of the information on that site is not supported by scientific evidence or medical testing. It is purely the collection of opinions, suggestions and personal mantras of the site owners and contributors. Again, there is likely some worthwhile things to be learned there, but there is absolutely no proof that an omnivores diet with small portions of lean meat is unhealthy.

I do not mean to be harsh here but fact is fact.

 

[AmericaOverland]

No, the disclaimer is on there to cover their butts in the event the AMA and other pleasure-food organizations go after them. They have been targets of such groups before and learned the hard way how to defend themselves. It is sad that they were legally forced to say this. I once knew the people who set up this information in book form and made it into text format many years ago.

Unsubscribed from this thread.

:sombrero:

 

[Scott Brady]

I also want to say that I am absolutely not anti vegan diet, in fact, the opposite. I am working towards smaller portions of meat and from much better sources like Elk (and other game) and away from mass-produced protein sources.

Dan has given me great advice through the years and has resulted in a much more balanced and healthy diet.

What I take exception to is saying that an omnivore's diet with small portions of lean meat is unhealthy for most people - that is simply false.

Back to the discussion of being vegan Rock on ladies and gentleman. :chef:

 

[ScottReb]

If you look at cultures where people dont eat primarily meat based diet, they do indeed live healthier lives as they age. John Robbins, the Blue Zone and another book or two in the last decade have proven primarily plant based cultures do indeed lead healthier lives. Less heart disease, strokes and diabetes. Together those 3 kill about 1 million a year in the US. The Adventist Health Study, with 40000 enrolled and over 40 years, showed a vegan in CA (where the study was done) has an average life expectancy of 6 or 7 years longer than a omnivore. The Framingham Heart study, actively going on since the 50's IIRC, has shown that vegetarians have 40% lower cancer rate and outlive omnivores 6 years. Dr Castelli of the same study also said in his 40 years with Framingham study he had yet to see an individual with a cholesterol less than 140 have die of a heart attack. Difficult to get that low eating meats without medications. While we talk about medications, remember medication related deaths in the US number close to 500,000 per year. Most on those meds are from chronic diseases that are so prevalent in Western societies. Then of course there is the China Study, which again shows that less meat and more plants decrease chronic disease processes. That is the key. The vast amount of americans die of chronic, preventable diseases.

As far as athletes and plant based...where to start. How about Dave Scott, triathalete. Oh yeah Scott Jurek, he runs 120 miles in death valley heat. Won more Western State 100 mile races than his next 2 closest peers. There are several natural vegan bodybuilders currently. There is a vegan female powerlifter who has set several weight records.

Even the American Diatetic Assoc stated in their Position Paper on Vegetarian Diets, that studies indicate vegetarians often have a lower morbidity and mortality rates. Several prominent physicians, including Essylstyn, Ornish and Furhman, to name just a few, have proven without question that vegan diets can reverse Coronary Artery disease. Very easy to prove when you have heart cath before and after, showing your arteries reopened.

Lets not forget most of the studies showing vegans not being healthy are funded by Dairy Council, Cattlemens' Assoc etc. The same ones who provide nutrition education to our young people and our medical schools in the US. Talk about "sudo-science."

Now how bout we get back to the OP idea of just who among us are vegans...which is what this thread is really about.

 

[Scott Brady]

Now how bout we get back to the OP idea of just who among us are vegans...which is what this thread is really about.

I agree. Lets just keep the fruits and nuts to a minimum and go with big helpings of facts and figures, that way we can all learn something and be healthier for it


Oh, and speaking of vegan triathletes: Bellying up to a heaping bowl of balance and a side of common sense Just an interesting read about one of the greatest (and long time vegan) triathletes, Mark Allen.

 

[spressomon]

Not that it matters since you "unsubscribed" but you've obviously misschosen your word ("dead"...whatever that means) or have never witnessed the red (non-dead??) color of wild game meat devoid of any more processing than what comes from the knife...fresh or thawed. I'll take a picture for you if you want...

<snip> "The reason meat stays red is sodium nitrite. It reduces the rate of botulinal toxin development. It would be a dead color if sodium nitrite was not applied to meat."

I should have stated "moderation" for my lifestyle. Nothing more.

Last time I checked horses weren't carnivorous/omnivorous. Not sure about your line of reasoning on that one.

 

[spressomon]

My wife has been eating a vegan diet now for a little over a year, and this year I am also going to start. I've been mostly vegetarian for about a year or so, so its not going to be a huge change.

Anyways my wife has amassed quite a few awesome vegan cookbooks and I wanted to share a few.

http://veganyumyum.com/

Thanks for your link to "Vegan Yum Yum"; I'll be trying those recipes soon!


One of my favorite ways to enjoy an avocado is just with a little sea salt, freshly toasted and ground cumin and a spritz of lime. It is a great little side 'salad'!

 

[rusty_tlc]

.... The reason meat stays red is sodium nitrite. It reduces the rate of botulinal toxin development. It would be a dead color if sodium nitrite was not applied to meat.....

This is in direct contradiction of my own first hand observations.

 

[FurthurOnTheFly]

Holy carp! We've felt so alone until this thread came along!! eepwall:

We are vegetarian, not vegan...but still...its nice to know there are others.

 

[Storz]

Holy carp! We've felt so alone until this thread came along!! eepwall:

We are vegetarian, not vegan...but still...its nice to know there are others.

Yeah I am actually suprised how many are on here

 

[Harald Hansen]

I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences maintaining a vegan diet while travelling.

(I'm a meat-eater, but could stand to reduce the amount of industrial red meat in my diet...)

 

[Storz]

I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences maintaining a vegan diet while travelling.

(I'm a meat-eater, but could stand to reduce the amount of industrial red meat in my diet...)

Mine?

Well unfortunatly I don't really get outside the states much. My last big overseas trip was to S. Korea a few years ago, which was before I went vegan, however by default most of my meals over there were in fact vegan. As far as travelling here in the states its pretty easy, we either pack and bring food with us or just hit a local grocery.

 

[Christophe Noel]

I was a vegetarian for four years in my early twenties. I was a terrible vegan. I couldn't stay healthy as a vegan.

Ultimately, what did in my veggie ways was my love of travel. I moved to France in '94 and within days it was obvious meat was on the menu. The more I traveled around the globe not eating meat, the more I realized I was missing a large part of the global cultural landscape which is often expressed through local fare. I agree with Scott, it can produce challenges while on the road.

By the way, the all-or-nothing designations for vegans, vegetarians and opportunivors are hard for me to understand. I eat red meat maybe twice a month. I probably have five veggie fueled days for every day with very small portions of lean meat. So, I'm 65% vegetarian, 10% vegan, 25% carnivore. I doubt there's a cookbook for that.