chasespeed
Explorer
I would go with the diesel. Not fan of the gm diesels, but, like anything else, if maontained, should take care of you. As well, if it gives you grief in the long run, it would be much simpler to swap a 4bt cummins in...
Another Great Debate...I hope
- Thread starter Singbush
- Start date
KLAKEBRONCO
Adventurer
One thing to consider.....Sounds like your on a budget.
Could you handle a catastrophic failure on the diesel? For instance a complete engine replacement? Add to that the injection pump, injectors etc. Some things I would consider a requirement like a PMD relocation, which adds to the cost.
You could go with a crew cab Ford Diesel. More reliability, if you go with an older 6.9 or 7.3l they are not electronic, and you can burn waste oil without any problems.
However, I wouldn't use a diesel unless it were those. Reason being is that the cost difference between gas and diesel is pretty high, and has been for a few years now.
A Bronco, or Bronco centurion would get you a cheap reliable offroadable vehicle with reliability decent mileage, and room for kids.
I think the chassis, and suspension components on a fullsize Bronco would hold up as well or better than a 3/4 ton Suburban. Especially the front end components.
Could you handle a catastrophic failure on the diesel? For instance a complete engine replacement? Add to that the injection pump, injectors etc. Some things I would consider a requirement like a PMD relocation, which adds to the cost.
You could go with a crew cab Ford Diesel. More reliability, if you go with an older 6.9 or 7.3l they are not electronic, and you can burn waste oil without any problems.
However, I wouldn't use a diesel unless it were those. Reason being is that the cost difference between gas and diesel is pretty high, and has been for a few years now.
A Bronco, or Bronco centurion would get you a cheap reliable offroadable vehicle with reliability decent mileage, and room for kids.
I think the chassis, and suspension components on a fullsize Bronco would hold up as well or better than a 3/4 ton Suburban. Especially the front end components.
TheGuyJones
Observer
IMO, diesel would be the way to go. I suggest doing some reading on the 6.5 over on this link. http://www.thedieselpage.com/
Rot Box
Explorer
I'll keep this one short--I hope lol. The TBI 350 is one of the best gas motors GM offered imo. It is very simple to trouble shoot, parts are everywhere and they last for a very long time if cared for. Because of the weight and the automatic trans you will not get great mileage or power.
Ahhh the 6.5 (I love and hate this one!) :Wow1: I've been through every 6.5 problem except for the broken crank issue and because of that I know my way around them fairly well LOL.
They can be reliable- My brother had a 550K mile 6.5 that ran great until it trew a rod! Just a few modifications and preventative maintenance can really boost the reliability of this motor.
They can be powerful- I used to haul my Toyota to Moab a lot with a group of fiends. My 6.5 was one of the most choked off diesels I have owned. With a simple intake, a bigger free flowing exhaust along with a higher resistor in the IP I could easily out pull my brothers 454 and completely blow the doors off any stock small block gasser hauling similar loads in the canyon. I was NEVER let down on power output. The Borg Warner turbo matches the engine very well. EGT's are good especially when you un-restrict the intake and exhaust.
They can get great mileage- My K2500 (heavy 3/4ton) would typically get similar mileage unloaded as my first gen Cummins. It was very rare for my truck to drop below 20mpg unless I was towing. Just guessing I would think a Suburban should get around 18+mpg depending on options and weight. I compare the 6.5 to a 454, an IDI to a 460, a Cummins or PSD to the V10s, and a Duramax to a 8.1 etc. That said in my mind diesel would have to cost a LOT more than it already does for me to consider going back to gas :coffeedrink:
They can be a royal pain in the neck!- The big killer for 6.5's is heat and it doesn't take much to cook one from the inside out. Coolant temps over 217* can crack the heads and because of the indirect injection and smallish block design keeping it cool can be difficult! A 96.5 and newer dual t-stat housing and a higher gpm water pump will do wonders though I'd consider this upgrade mandatory and a 99-00 cooling fan would really help too they are enormous! I'd go as far to say 90% of injector pump problems end up being the FSD fuel solenoid driver (or PMD pump mounted driver). This is an easy fix and by relocating the part the problem is solved. Oil cooler lines are known to leak--annoying but easy to fix if it bothers you. Glow plug access is horrible and I'm betting thats the reason most mechanics don't like touching them. The Turbo and manifold pretty much need to come out if you have a stubborn plug. If someone has installed autolite or champion glow plugs they could also be swollen on the end which makes things really difficult.
I would love a 6.5 Suburban. I would buy one and immediately do the reliability and cooling upgrades and also swap out the glow plugs for factory ones. If you keep the motor healthy and cool they will last a very long time. This is my (bias anything gas can do diesel can do better) opinion though--and I really really love diesel engines :bike_rider:
Ahhh the 6.5 (I love and hate this one!) :Wow1: I've been through every 6.5 problem except for the broken crank issue and because of that I know my way around them fairly well LOL.
They can be reliable- My brother had a 550K mile 6.5 that ran great until it trew a rod! Just a few modifications and preventative maintenance can really boost the reliability of this motor.
They can be powerful- I used to haul my Toyota to Moab a lot with a group of fiends. My 6.5 was one of the most choked off diesels I have owned. With a simple intake, a bigger free flowing exhaust along with a higher resistor in the IP I could easily out pull my brothers 454 and completely blow the doors off any stock small block gasser hauling similar loads in the canyon. I was NEVER let down on power output. The Borg Warner turbo matches the engine very well. EGT's are good especially when you un-restrict the intake and exhaust.
They can get great mileage- My K2500 (heavy 3/4ton) would typically get similar mileage unloaded as my first gen Cummins. It was very rare for my truck to drop below 20mpg unless I was towing. Just guessing I would think a Suburban should get around 18+mpg depending on options and weight. I compare the 6.5 to a 454, an IDI to a 460, a Cummins or PSD to the V10s, and a Duramax to a 8.1 etc. That said in my mind diesel would have to cost a LOT more than it already does for me to consider going back to gas :coffeedrink:
They can be a royal pain in the neck!- The big killer for 6.5's is heat and it doesn't take much to cook one from the inside out. Coolant temps over 217* can crack the heads and because of the indirect injection and smallish block design keeping it cool can be difficult! A 96.5 and newer dual t-stat housing and a higher gpm water pump will do wonders though I'd consider this upgrade mandatory and a 99-00 cooling fan would really help too they are enormous! I'd go as far to say 90% of injector pump problems end up being the FSD fuel solenoid driver (or PMD pump mounted driver). This is an easy fix and by relocating the part the problem is solved. Oil cooler lines are known to leak--annoying but easy to fix if it bothers you. Glow plug access is horrible and I'm betting thats the reason most mechanics don't like touching them. The Turbo and manifold pretty much need to come out if you have a stubborn plug. If someone has installed autolite or champion glow plugs they could also be swollen on the end which makes things really difficult.
I would love a 6.5 Suburban. I would buy one and immediately do the reliability and cooling upgrades and also swap out the glow plugs for factory ones. If you keep the motor healthy and cool they will last a very long time. This is my (bias anything gas can do diesel can do better) opinion though--and I really really love diesel engines :bike_rider:
Singbush
Observer
Wow!!
Thanks for all the responses. Best part of coming home from work(worst day ever, but that's a whole new post), second only to seeing the family.
To clarify a few things I should have earlier...
I am on a budget and trying to stay back of $5k. Both burb's are listed at $4-4500. That being said, I haven't inspected either for condition. Obviously I would love some of the suggestions made ie, PSD Excursion, but that ain't happenin' on my budget anytime soon.
I have owned a "unique" diesel Liberty for the last few years and frankly the "unique" factor is wearing out. Finding someone knowledgeable and local is very challenging. I enjoy working on my own vehicles, however, that can prove very difficult on a diesel with limited experience and tools. I like the idea of the chevy 350 being one of the easier motors/drivetrains to work on. On the other hand, I'm not sure I am prepared for the jump in fuel costs to the monthly budget @ sub-10mpg. Maybe a 1500 Tahoe/Yukon is the answer. Less room, but much better on the fuel front.
Thanks again,
Mike
Thanks for all the responses. Best part of coming home from work(worst day ever, but that's a whole new post), second only to seeing the family.
To clarify a few things I should have earlier...
I am on a budget and trying to stay back of $5k. Both burb's are listed at $4-4500. That being said, I haven't inspected either for condition. Obviously I would love some of the suggestions made ie, PSD Excursion, but that ain't happenin' on my budget anytime soon.
I have owned a "unique" diesel Liberty for the last few years and frankly the "unique" factor is wearing out. Finding someone knowledgeable and local is very challenging. I enjoy working on my own vehicles, however, that can prove very difficult on a diesel with limited experience and tools. I like the idea of the chevy 350 being one of the easier motors/drivetrains to work on. On the other hand, I'm not sure I am prepared for the jump in fuel costs to the monthly budget @ sub-10mpg. Maybe a 1500 Tahoe/Yukon is the answer. Less room, but much better on the fuel front.
Thanks again,
Mike
78Bronco
Explorer
A friend of mine has a 2500 Silverado with the 6.5L TD and it's a complete lemon. The PMD has gone numerous times despite relocating it and the injector pump has gone twice and now it sits with a broken crank.
I would go with a 7.3L powerstroke or the cummins when talking diesel. The new duramax is supposed to be great but that is due to the involvement of Isuzu in it's development.
The burb is a great platform and in this situation I would go with the gas 5.7L because they are proven reliable and when they do break down you can fix those things anywhere.
I would go with a 7.3L powerstroke or the cummins when talking diesel. The new duramax is supposed to be great but that is due to the involvement of Isuzu in it's development.
The burb is a great platform and in this situation I would go with the gas 5.7L because they are proven reliable and when they do break down you can fix those things anywhere.
D
Deleted member 9101
Guest
X 2
You will hear a lot of bad things about the 6.5.. but in my experience (since 1996 in the military) the GM diesels are not bad at all. You wont' win any races with them..but they do run well, fuel efficient, and seem to last a loooong time.
One advantage the suburban has is the parts are so cheap its not even funny. Chevy trucks are so plentiful and they use the same interchangeable parts for decades that to maintain, modifications, and repairs are very affordable.
Also, what ever problems it has.. somebody has already fix and modified it to make it better.. so everything you do to it is already tried and tested.
Singbush
Observer
I love it, love it, love it. The only problem is budget, budget, budget. Plus, it's going to be a daily driver but I do like where your head is at.
While we're on the topic; anyone have any experience with the Isuzu diesel engines/swaps. I've read over the isuzudieselswapper.com website in the past. Sounds like an interesting option, although my dad's company that uses the actual NPR trucks is not a big fan of the engine. Lots of cracked pistons or heads or something of the sort.
Great thread.
Mike
While we're on the topic; anyone have any experience with the Isuzu diesel engines/swaps. I've read over the isuzudieselswapper.com website in the past. Sounds like an interesting option, although my dad's company that uses the actual NPR trucks is not a big fan of the engine. Lots of cracked pistons or heads or something of the sort.
Great thread.
Mike
john101477
Photographer in the Wild
Never done a swap but I owned an NPR for about 5 years. It was pretty slick and while the motor will not win any contests for top speed, it is a very powerful motor and in a lighter rig... might be slick. I kept the oil changed and fluids right along with the filters and never had any issues.
My 92 is my daily driver, city driving, 23 mpg. For 5k you can find a nice relatively clean example. I didn't notice how big a family you have, but I just love my reliable, never say die Cummins!!! I paid 7 for mine, but I freely admit that I overpaid.