4510 Public Defender for concealed

[Corey]

On the back cover of the new Gun Talk magazine was this Taurus 5 shot gun.
It shoots both 45 and 410 shells.

My new Glock 21SF is a little big to carry concealed, but this new smaller Judge style gun looks like it would fit the bill.

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=662&category=Pistol

Good video at the URL above, and YouTube has videos too.

Anyone here have this gun or an opinion on it for concealed carry?

 

[1911]

Someone will buy it and like it I'm sure, but .410 as a defensive load is a joke and these pistols are a marketing gimmick IMO. .45 long Colt is OK as a defensive round, but then there are much better .45 ACP pistols that conceal well if you want .45 cal. JMHO, YMMV, etc.

 

[Rexsname]

I'll agree that .410 out of a handgun is not the best choice. Last I looked there were not many choices for .45LC defensive ammo either. Look for a S&W 625 in .45acp instead.


REX

 

[Klierslc]

Might be a good choice if you run into a lot of dogs and just want to pepper them a little.

I don't see the attraction of the 410 when you can get 10 rounds of 45 acp in a similar sized package.

 

[Corey]

Very good points here about the limited capacity.
Plus I like my Glock that shoots 45 ACP, maybe I will look for something small that is concealable that shoots 45 ACP as well.

One thing though, I had not shot many 45s until I got the 21SF.
It has some kick to it, how is it going to be in a handgun half the size of the 21?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Shotshells are designed to be fired in smoothbore barrels. When fired in a rifled barrel, it spins the wad and centrifugal force spreads the pattern to hell and gone.

Tom Givens had a VERY negative review of the Taurus Judge in SWAT magazine a few months ago for that reason.

These things are a bad joke, yet they are selling like hot cakes, and now even S&W has jumped on the bandwagon.

As far as there being few good defensive rounds for 45 (Long) Colt, it's true that you don't find much from the major companies - Remington, Winchester, and Federal.

But take a look at CorBon's web site. They make both their DPX and their Glaser round in that caliber, and the ballistic figures look very good. I've seen nothing but good reports on the DPX, and from sources I trust. For that reason, I'm currently carrying .40 DPX in my Glock 35.

As for another 45 acp, take a look at the Glock 36. You may find it fits your hand very well and is much easier to carry and conceal.

Regards
John

 

[Corey]

Very nice, and I am already turned onto how nice Glocks are since owning mine for a short while now.
http://www.glock.com/english/glock36.htm

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/glock-36-45-acp/

That is nice and small, I like it.
Six round would be OK for a small gun like that when using it as a concealed one.
A small holster that can hold at least one extra magazine would be nice too.
Plus one more caliber I would not have to buy since I already have it.

Already have 5.56 for the AR15, and soon 22LR for the S&W M&P AR15-22 I am picking soon.

 

[02TahoeMD]

I wouldnt use a Defender as a PDW but I think it would be ok to have as a campsite gun. If you are looking for a more compact .45 look into the medium and small frame Glock .45s. Find one that fits your hand well. A compact Glock is a good idea since it operates that same as your full size. And familiarity with your weapon system is a decided asset when the chips are down.

You may also want to look into a different holster like the Crossbreed, as it is designed for hiding big guns so nobody has a clue that you are "heeled" as they used to say.

 

[ssc45]

The judge is a great marketing program. 1911 is spot on with his post. There is no reason why you can't CCW the 21. It does take some time to find the right method and a good belt and holster. My primary CCW is 99% of the time either a glock 17 or 21. Guns are comforting, not always comfortable, but you dress around them. If you do decide to look for a smaller gun, stay with the same platform. My backup for the 21 is a 30. The 30 can take the 21 mags. I do not find the recoil to be any different, though I am not very recoil sensitive. My backup for the 17 is another 17 or 19.

I am a firm believer in capacity for many reasons--but that is the subject of another thread. Just keep in mind that it is no fun to run out of bullets before you run out of threats.

Cheers, SSC

 

[Corey]

Thanks, I will look at some holsters at the shop where I bought the 21SF.
I have seen some of the holsters out there that have the big leather belts, not really into that.

Most of my pants I wear are not jeans with big belt loops, and they have their own belts with them.
I would need a holster that can use that belt, or maybe a holster that slips into the pants?
I think I have seen some that do not use a belt at all.

I bought the Glock mainly for a home defense, sitting around the campfire, in the tent at night with me, ect...
So it would be nice to be able to carry it too around the campsite to have in an instant in case someone came looking to cause trouble.
Most of the backcountry sites I seek out in the Greenwater area are secluded, and I would hate to be surprised by someone sneaking up on me and not having it by my side.

It is sad to say, but the world def is not the friendly place it use to be a few decades ago, even in remote places where you seek to get away from it all.

 

[bucketosudz]

Corey, if your going to carry daily, it pays to invest in a good quality belt and holster/s. The belts help distribute the weight and your hips and back will appreciate it. There are several makers of slim IWB (in the waistband) holsters, but not many that would be reliable as self supporting if you will. A belt of some sort is nearly required unless your to use a Smartcarry/Thunderwear style holster. They are comfy for some, but not for everyone.

Those that carry often will have several different holsters to fit different daily dress choices. Or they buy clothing to fit one style of holster most of the time. It is definitely a personal desire type of deal.

The Crossbreed Supertuck as mentioned is a good choice, I have used one, although it is not the end all/be all for this type of option.

I will also echo what has been said about the Judge, you can get a much better setup for the money. Unless of course you just want one, then that is fine also. Just my.02 FWIW

 

[bcrez]

.410 defense rounds are perfectly adequate, if not better for home defense than say a 9mm or 00 buck, for a number of reasons... 1 is that these rounds wont penetrate wall, heading say... for your kids room or your neighbors house. 2 you dont have to be right on target to hit an intruder in a dark hallway when you've been roused in the night. 3 ammo manufacturers have made defense rounds specifically for the judge platform, one being.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff-BizqTaOA"]YouTube - Winchester PDX1 .410 Demo[/ame]

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Corey]

Corey, if your going to carry daily, it pays to invest in a good quality belt and holster/s. The belts help distribute the weight and your hips and back will appreciate it. There are several makers of slim IWB (in the waistband) holsters, but not many that would be reliable as self supporting if you will. A belt of some sort is nearly required unless your to use a Smartcarry/Thunderwear style holster. They are comfy for some, but not for everyone.

Thanks, I just do not see myself wearing one of those still belts with the type of pants I wear.

I do kind of like the idea of an ankle holster for a small gun such as the Glock 36, or an inside the pant waistband for it.

Will not be carrying daily, only on weekends when I am out and about around town.

Where I work (Boeing) you can not have a gun or ammo on company property even in your vehicle, it is grounds for dismissal, so I would not be carrying during the work week.

If I get time tomorrow I will hit the shop where I got my 21SF and see what options they have for CC for a small gun.

 

[ssc45]

I will have to disagree with the above post. Perhaps it is adequate for you and your situation, but to claim the 410 is perfectly adequate, "if not better than say the 9mm or 00 buck" is to me wrong. Please set forth how it is better. The 410 in any test I have seen and read as well as spoke to people who have been shot by birdshot-myself included, shows that it has inadequate penetration--including the new defense loads. It fails to meet any of the FBI standards.

You claim it "wont penetrate wall." Please inform us of your testing or where you have verified results. I agree it is a shallow penetrating round, which is why it is not adequate for self defense in my opinion. The best I can verify is maybe 8 inches of penetration in Bare gel, but most tests and my personal testing seem to indicate less. I have seen this 410 load go through sheetrock, so I know it can penetrate a wall. When it comes to ballistics, there are very few things that are absolute. I have seen 230grain hardball from a .45acp hit a $2 metal chair leg and come spinning back at the shooter.

Hence if it works for you, that is great. For me, I will take a different approach. I do not know what you mean by "you dont have to be right on target to hit an intruder..."

Regards, SSC

 

[Metcalf]

ANY caliber is suitable for self defense (2-legged wildlife) if the weapon is on you when you need it and you can accurately place the shots.....

So, if its not comfortable enough to carry every day your not going to have it on you when you need it.....

If you can't find a holster you like, think about making one.

Everyone is different in what they like to carry and shoot. My personal preference is a CCO sized 1911 in 45 apc. I also like the M&P full size in just about any flavor.

Good luck.