2006 Stewart & Stevenson/BAE 6x6 Build

[O2Bob]

Wanted to check back in after picking up my S&S/BAE M1087A1 6x6. :victory:

I just couldn't wipe the smile off of my face after hooking up the batteries and looking at the odometer.....116 miles. I must have looked three times! :Wow1: It started right up and drove to my buddies farm 45miles away.

Plans are moving forward to shorten the frame, wheel base and build new living quarters. My goal is to make it compact as possible (like first the pic) but be able to travel comfortable for months at a time. I will post more info and pics as everything moves forward.

Robert.

http://youtu.be/IPzla2jLf5Q

 

[greg mgm]

Whoa.... an expanding camper. :victory:
Any chance you will be keeping and modifying that expanding box?
(No, I don't want it)

 

[O2Bob]

Nope, I am just going to use some of the parts on a new build, non-slide. If you look at the last two pics this is what happens to a $100k+ box when you drive under a very large tree! No damage to the truck at all and probably the only circumstance to find such a new one. :sombrero:

Robert.

 

[MrBeast]

Know what is funny is I used to haul those things out of Sealy Tx when it was still armor holdings.

Cool build, I am subscribed.

 

[haven]

Tell us more about how you acquired the truck.

I heard that the military was not selling these as surplus. The story was that the trucks were deemed dangerous on the roadway because they were so different from most drivers' experience. Or maybe the authorities were afraid somebody would start shipping surplus models to Libya.

 

[O2Bob]

Gota love the "Rumor Mill."


Acquisition:

I bought the truck through GL auctions who I might add has no idea what they are selling. I also researched the trucks design and drive train for the last year before the purchase. I've been an engineer for over 25yrs so I know what I'm looking at, this is not a new hobby for me. The truck is very stout and safe for my use. It is also a very smart design, the team who worked on this project put a lot of thought into it and it shows. I will go into more detail when I have a little more time.


Safety:

I've held a CDL for most of my life and have a lot of experience with heavy equipment and hauling it. Anything this big and heavy can be dangerous, young GI's hurt them self every day because of little supervision and BIG EQUIPMENT. What most (American) drivers don't realize is a cabover handles much better (quicker) than a conventional cab and are much more maneuverable because of this fact. As with any large truck any error in judgment is amplified, it doesn't matter what you drive. ******* HAPPENS!!!

http://youtu.be/o0ELxRch7l4



I looked into the safety record on the MTV truck line and found it was many times less likely to be involved in a fatality because it has much improved systems: ABS brakes that are multi channel along with being full air brakes. It is also full time 6 wheel drive and this also improves handling. Some of the old trucks had weak brakes for the load they were dealing with and brake failure was the #1 reason for injuries while driving. None were full time 6 wheel drive. Power steering and much improved suspension. Same thing, the old trucks didn't always have power steering and the rear didn't always have shocks. So in a nut shell you can drive the newer MTV much faster with comfort (did I mention the cab is air ride and air conditioned :sombrero BUT faster can create situations that some drivers may not handle well.


After I remove the old box and shorten the frame I'm heading to Moab for testing and to measure frame flex and balance. I have a feeling I won't be disappointed.


I feel this chassis will be exceptional for expedition use and because we (USA) have nothing of this quality available to us out of the box, it will become much more common.


Let me know if you have other questions and thanks for asking, it gives me food for thought!

Robert.

 

[shortbus4x4]

I remember watching this rig come up on GL and drooling over it.:drool: Nice to see its going to a home where I can watch it get built.

 

[UK4X4]

S&S make probably 80% of oilfield offroad haulers I see in the oilfields big sand tires mud huge flotation tyres driven by our friends with turbans rarely do we have big truck wrecks. Wireline trucks yes we use a short Renault 6x6 like in the rally's and the average young 26 year fresh out thinks he's in a tonka toy awesome truck looking forward to the build

 

[DzlToy]

Im very interested in your thoughts on this vehicle from a quality and technical standpoint, especially since there arent many in private hands. Though one truck out a fleet is an isolated example, but I have done some reading on these and the S&S models at least, appear to be complete carbage. I have never owned one, so info is all heresay, but it was basically a very expensive truck built very poorly by the lowest bidder who ultimately lost the contract there were so many problems. I have heard similar stories on everything from guns to boats from friends in the military. People have this image that Mil-Spec is super high quality and high spec, etc, when in reality its often the exact opposite.

One could argue that a large cabover like an Isuzu FTR, UD2600 or Mitsubishi FM are very well built and could easily be converted to 4WD by a company like Tulsa Truck MFG. These trucks are easy service through large dealer networks and cheap to purchase. A converted model could then be built into whatever you desire. I have to imagine that getting parts from BAE or S&S is going to be an expensive nightmare.

Subscribed...

 

[O2Bob]

Interesting thoughts, but far from reality.

Since you have "read up" on the MTV line of trucks what is so low quality about the drivetrain? Caterpillar C7 330hp 6cyl diesel engine, Allison MD3070PT 7spd auto transmission with full time 6wd integrated transfer case and Arvin Meritor face mount 19k rated planetary axels with ABS and real CTIS running on Michelin 395-85-20 XML radial tires mounted on a walking beam suspension? For most of us this "is" or close to top shelf here in the USA.

So far I have been able to order any part for the drivetrain right off the shelf. I just ordered a faster ring and pinion for better highway speed from an Arvin Meritor distributor. Cat has a world wide parts system to support the C7 and Allison transmission does the same for the MD3070PT.

The rest of the truck is a heavy duty steel frame, cab and a steering wheel. I even talked to the BAE built parts distributor and have no problem ordering parts from them.

When the design team put this platform idea into motion it was built from off the shelf parts for a reason. Easy to source!

So I guess I still am not sure what is so "low quality" or "hard to deal with" about the platform?

When I looked at Isuzu, UD, Mitsubishi and Hino I found very different levels of quality. The Hino is the very best of the group no question. Try finding a 2006 factory built 4x4 Hino here in the USA, let alone a 6x6. Not going to happen unless you are Bill Gates.

I am very capable in doing the 4x4 or 6x6 conversion myself but a 2wd factory cabover was not designed to be 6x6 unless you change the frame geometry....a lot. You then have a divorced transfer case that hangs down low along with other design problems, not ideal in the real world. If you look closely to the MTV chassis it is a very compact built drive train with an integrated full time transfer case that can also be locked (imagine a new Dodge 5500 engine transmission and transfer case assembly, but super sized) with axles designed for high ground clearance not just over the road low hanging diffs. Not something you can reproduce or even come close to with a "custom built" 2wd cabover.

One of the biggest reasons I chose to use this platform was cost vs performance ratio, try building a factory designed 6x6 with 116 miles for under $17k. Yes YMMV and I got very lucky but even if my time and labor were free the cost of parts alone to convert something half as capable would be 2 or 3 times more.

Again, at some later point I will go over each component and cover why is was chosen for its use, there are some very good real world applications for each. Please look over the build brochure and components it will answer most uninformed questions.

Thanks for giving me more "Rumor Mill" food for thought.


Robert.

 

[DzlToy]

not a CAT fan by any means, but it appears to be a decent engine. I cant argue that Allison and Arvin are quality components and the "off the shelf" design is a good one. Why build your own transmission or have one created for a project when an Aliison 3000 will do just fine (example).

I assumed you got a good deal on the rig being a surplus auction and you are correct that one could not obtain the parts for 17k, much less that type of vehicle.

That said, the "quality" info came from active duty military who were using these trucks on a regular basis in training and in combat, so Im confident that they werent just made up stories.

My assumption on parts and service was that you were basically dealing with a defence contractor whose job it was to build these for the military, not sell parts to Joe Blow or tell him how to fix his truck. (BAE is not a Ford dealership with a parts counter) Same goes for companies like Allison and Arvin Meritor, who typically deal with OEMs and upfitters, not Joe on the street who needs a seal or bearing for his transmission or axle. I ran into this with AAM and ZF as well as Eaton, they dont want to deal with the public, answer questions, transfer calls, provides parts, etc., They tell you to go to a dealer for a reason.

Thanks for the info, hope you dont have any majour problems.

 

[O2Bob]

Yea, I have owned Cummins most of my life and would prefer one but Cat makes a solid engine and when cared for is a 600k to 700k motor. The C7 does get much better fuel economy than my Cummins 8.3. Other than running an overhead at 10k and 100k and routine maintenance not a lot to look out for. Also when I'm done the MTV should be under 24k lbs, not much for this drive train. If I remember correctly the truck GVW is around 50k and tow 21K, and this is the OFF ROAD RATING. I spoke will Allison in Indianapolis and engineering spec on the trans is over 70k lbs continuous duty. Not bad for being a low quality product.

I did find problems with the FMTV line back in the early 90's but that was when they were first being built. ALL prototype trucks in their first years have some problems. From the research I did (active military mechanics included) the FMTV line is now the the most reliable 5 ton ever made.

Most complaints about the new truck were based on "combat use" the old 2.5 ton/5ton would run on 3 cylinders with any kind of fuel and didn't need a battery to run. They would always get you home no question. Yes they were tough as nails but also rode like a lumber wagon, were so loud you needed ear protection and had little if any power steering. I don't intend to see any combat if at all possable. :sombrero:

Well you know what they say about assuming anything! Call Cat, Allison or Arvin Meritor dealer, parts warehouse or service center and give them the serial number and order your part.....you are not dealing with BAE or S&S. Again, off the shelf parts.....not NASA one off. All tech and service manuals are available. As a matter of fact there is an S&S dealer here in Denver who does work on them and also recommended any Cat\Allison service center. I can even go to my local NAPA and find my routine maintenance parts and fluids.



-R

 

[roninjiro]

Think you will have any problems traveling to other countries on entry or departure because it was a military vehicle?

 

[Allroader]

Hi,
Wow, just been busy a couple days with our move and been missing this great thread. Since we have to sell our MB 917er Rig, due to not getting it into the US. Of course we want to get a new large Rig, just our requirments are pushing us back to a MB. I want to have a Cab-Over to save in length.
I do have some questions to your Rig, since i was having a hard time getting a answer (or a good answer).
-The problems with driveline, causing some Trucks to flip. Was only in the early years, which ones?
- Read that the fuel consumption extremly high is. My Rig has about 12mpg, what are you expecting.
- How is the ride quality? the Pics in net seem to have min insolation. Of course I could add this myself.
- Your Rig has beaded Rims with the Nato size Tires. Are the Rims Aluminium?

Thanks for your input.

Mike

roninjiro
Think you will have any problems traveling to other countries on entry or departure because it was a military vehicle?

Driving around in the military paint might cause some problems, but once that is changed it will be very few People/Boarders that will cause you problems.

 

[grizzlyj]

Hi

Thats a nice truck! Lucky SOB seems fair comment regarding the $!

The rumor mill may or may not be informed, but the discussion it provoked is very interesting thank you!

Do you think running a truck with such a high possible capacity, but so lightly laden in your camper use, will give everything outside your air-ride cab a hard time?

Will there be room for a jacuzzi without the slide outs though?