Smittybuilt Element Ramps

[Air Sierra]

I disagree on all accounts. Smittybuilt did a blatant copy/ reverse engineering and is only cheaper because they have no overhead associated with innovation, design or testing.

I will never buy a blatant knock-off. It is bad for the industry, bad for innovation and usually ends up failing miserably in the field. I have no intention of rewarding the copy-cats.

In particular, I have found your statement of "well-proven in the field" to be entirely false when it comes to Smittybuilt products, their winches in particular.

I agree and disagree....I agree on exact copy's, but they did change items to make it their own.
Lets face it Maxtrax did not come up with the idea, it has been around since horse and buggy days.
I think similar products from different manufactures is good for business and customers alike.

I found these at a garage sale down the street a couple years ago. The idea is the same and these are from the 1980's so does this mean Maxtrax is a knock off of this?....just saying...

[RusherRacing]

First, thank you OP it looks like a very useful product for a reasonable price.

As far as it being a knockoff. Well yes it is. But what did Maxtrax do to protect itself as a company? Do they have a patent? If they do they should hit up Smittybuilt with a lawsuit, in order to stop production.

If maxtrax doesn't have a patent and didn't properly protect themselves then they need to get aggressive! The tooling should be amortized by now and at this point material and processing, marketing etc are the only costs. Now they need to start marketing and getting aggresive for new buisness. Marketing to the large warehouses - Keystone's, jegs, summit, autoanything... etc of the world.


I am asked to review substandard china knock offs of our products fairly frequently. Most of the time we have to compete in the market place and we do so very successfully!

[Paladin]

I agree that spending more doesn't always mean you get something better or more reliable. Sometimes the first to market just targets a lower volume/higher price segment of the market for some reason. Sometimes you are paying only for name brand. You're paying for the company owner's speedboat, or waterfront mansion. Or you are paying for glossy ads in magazines.

Yes, I want people to innovate. But how long have Pullpal been in the market and how much innovation have they put in lately? Are they just coasting? Do we reward that forever? Sometimes innovation is figuring out how to make something more cost effectively.

There's about $20 worth of plastic and labour in a set of MaxTrax. The rest of the price is tooling amortization and overhead. They choose to remain in the market segment where they sell for $200, and they sell maybe 10,000 per year. Smittybilt might sell 100,000 at $100 per pair. Same unit cost, shorter amortization.

Heck, for all we know, Maxtrax could have entered an agreement with Smittybilt to hit the low end of the market at a lower price point, with the exact same product. Companies do this all the time.

Did Pullpal even create the device? Or did they copy some farmer they saw who did it first but didn't have the knowledge to bring it to market? That happens all the time as well.

Too many unknowns. I buy what benefits me. It doesn't always mean the cheapest. I buy the best price/performance.

Actually, when I saw the WASP, I didn't even know it was a knock-off. I thought it was new and innovative. A folding land anchor, brilliant! And $120, so I snapped it up. The fact I wasn't aware of the the PRT is because of their poor market penetration, which is largely due to their price.

[rezdiver]

I am not sure why this is being argued, this equipment is not a life saving or a mechanical piece of equipment which took tons of reasearch and engineering to develope. it has about as much design put into is as a set of floormats for your truck.

its a disposable piece of plastic that has been marketed so well and this is the only reason they can charge so much for it.

its a wear and tear and break and replace item and should never have cost so much in the first place. there is nothing special about it, except that a pair of them fit together and have cool looking design to it. i can build you a replica out of a couple of planks of wood that will do everything this can do and more for less than 20 bucks and a half hour of my time.

there is way too much money being wasted on disposable items like this. made in the USA or in China, spending a few hundred dollars on plastic mats that you spin your tires on and bend or break in half is questionable. but if you must have them....then the ones listed seem to be the best price, copy or not.

[AFSOC]

Too many unknowns. I buy what benefits me. It doesn't always mean the cheapest. I buy the best price/performance.

Knock off...where is the line? The MaxTrax product is hunks of molded plastic. If these "knock offs" are an inch narrower or 4 inches longer is the function different? Many of us (read vast majority) won't use this sort of product often enough to tie up a bunch of money in these products. A lower price point is innovation for the market place. If the innovator is amortizing years of research and development for a rather simplistic product, how do you determine they are being fairly compensated and where do you say enough is enough?

I like what Paladin said, "I buy the best price/performance." Get what meets your needs. If you don't want to plunk down a bunch of coin on a Snow Peak double wall Titanium cup and can satisfy your need with a double wall stainless steel cup, it is entirely your choice. I'd say there's room in the market for both. If the "knock off" product is a POS and there is a true need for the product, you will be back knocking on the door of the "innovator". One of the risks you run is that you will log on to ExPo and hear exactly what you should have done from all the members of the "buy the best first, never buy again" krewe.

[LaOutbackTrail]

I'd rather pay 120 for the Smitty built tracks than the 240 for the same thing.


I'm another anti-Warn person... after having EVERY SINGLE Warn Winch ever fail on me. Sure, I was hard on the winches, but had them serviced/repaired and installed properly.

I am very interested in learning more about super-winches before I'd buy a Smitty built. But to be honest, the 1/2price tag and (majority) positive reviews are tempting.

It is funny how economics work in our hobby.

[Paladin]

I'm curious about McVick's comment "rip-off of the original MaxTrax product".

I can see clear differences between these, and MaxTrax's for sale now. So maybe Smitty did innovate? Or was there an older version of MaxTrax that these are a copy of? Is it a direct scan/copy? If it is... I would wonder if they are in fact the same mold, and whether or not this is actually just a marketing job whereby MaxTrax has saturated the high end market, and now is going to work the low end market, with a different brand name in order to retain the MaxTrax cachet.

If it does turn out to be a total scan/copy job, despite what I have said, it is a mark against it in my book. Not sure what my final decision would be.

Just curious.

Not really sure I'm in the market for these anyway. I DO want something, but what I would find more useful is bridging ladders, that also work as a rack flooring. These work marginally at bridging, and not well at all as rack flooring. No way in heck I could afford/justify Mantec ladders, so I may end up just making something.

[Paladin]

It is funny how economics work in our hobby.

And that's just it, a hobby. If I was doing this professionally, and more particularly got paid to do it... my opinion might be different.

I originally started talking about Warn, but deleted it. Interesting that it's mentioned now. Warn, IMO, is a good example of when I believe you are paying for a name, and not quality. (flame suit on) I also have seen them fail. I've also seen the guts of one compared to a Chinese no-name winch, and it was surprising. The Chinese winch was clearly better.

I bought a Superwinch EP9. Made in China, but it's an original design, and innovative. Sold for the same price as the much lower performance Warn M8000, which is not innovative in anyway.

[Scott Brady]

It is simple to see which companies are innovating and have an emphasis on quality. There is a difference between something that is just similar and something that is a (nearly) complete copy.

It is also simple to determine the true cost to consumers and the industry if consumers reward the copycats.

[Scott Brady]

If I was doing this professionally, and more particularly got paid to do it... my opinion might be different.

But Rob, you are a professional engineer. You see the cost associated with design, FEA, testing and development.