A few thoughts, starting with...
I thought OJ's original issue had something to do with using a white Bronco, not a citroen, for a getaway car. I mean broncos are GREAT, but as a getaway car?...As I read through this thread, I keep thinking back to one of the original issues of OJ, that featured a black Citroen with a roof top tent,
As for the List -- it's decent. As a JK owner I can say I've done a lot of rough riding but no real heavy work. I wouldn't take it overseas just yet, but I feel that once they properly crack the Diesel shell they'll be far more popular all around the place as the parts will be far more easy to access.
I'm not sold on the Dealership-availability argument from an Overland perspective when talking about things like burnt bulbs-- the theory is, you are self-sufficient and dependent only on your vehicle. If you are going places where a breakdown will be an issue you NEED to know to fix it yourself. If you can't, don't go there till you learn. If you have a physical address -- hotel, gas station, Rural Route Mailbox -- you can get parts. If you've got a toolbox, you SHOULD be able to install them. Specialty tools like lifts, pullers, etc. are common to most vehicles. And vehicles are EVERYWHERE. A case of beer or a pack of smokes should get you there.
That said, I'm going to be a bit of a jerk with the formatting:
THE BEST OVERLAND VEHICLE IS THE ONE THAT WORKS
I heard that quote from a video a few days ago and I wholeheartedly agree.
Spend 60K on a vehicle instead of 6K = 54K you can't spend on Gas.
The list looked pretty good to me, given the context. If your context is North America (which is a HUGE place to explore, by the way -- so don't go hating on those who never make it to overland overseas!), basically anything made pre-1993 Chevrolet can be repaired in literally any town in North America by any Tom, Dick, or Harry mechanic who comes along. Not the criteria for the list, I know, but that trend continues to this day -- I have an '01 Silverado with near 350,000 on the Odometer and she's hardly ever failed me -- a bad starter once in the middle of nowhere, Ontario -- but they had the part in stock and I was good to go in an hour and a half.
Besides, this is about the Adventure, right? Well, a breakdown in a remote area is one hell of an adventure, in my books
While I agree 100% on these two points, some aren't blessed with the time or know-how to deal with these types of situations. The $60k rig and two weeks a year are all some people get. It takes a certain type of person to enjoy wrenching on their $6k rig in the middle of nowhere. I personally am ok with it, but my wife? Not so much. (I still take her on adventures in $4k trucks, albeit with good maintenance first).
'98 Dodge 3500 CTD NV4500 complete with a crap load of goodies. "Bought, not built"
'11 Rubicon Unlimited OME heavies
'07 Adventurer 10T
No kids, 3 dogs, many surfboards...
Very good point. I guess to expand the initial obnoxious formatted statement, the best overland vehicle is the one that works for you.
$6k! Who can afford that. My 4Runner was $3k and I've driven all over Mexico, US and the Canadian Rockies in an $1800 neon.
Topic was used vehicles.
Which one would you rather drive across say Argentina? A ten year old land cruiser or 4 runner or a NEW jeep.
Many would pick the 10 year old Toyota. Other than the obvious huge reliability gap, parts are going to be simply more available for the Toyota if you need them.
Another question-How about the Lexus GX 470.
It won many off road of the year awards, is toyota rock solid, and stock tires are larger than the V8 4runner which it is based.
When I served in Iraq, I saw many a LC series and even a couple of Prados driving around by the contractors, so people must really trust in these vehicles, you do not want to break down in Iraq.
Speaking of being able to survive. If the GX ever breaks, you have a parts bin from the FJ, Tacoma, and 4runner to choose from. So you can go to the local toyota dealer, mechanic, or if needed junk yard to find a part.
Can't say that about many other vehicles except for the JK, many can be found in the junkyard.
ooh there I go I heated this thread up.
Last edited by sjpomyrn; 06-17-2012 at 04:24 AM.
The running gear might be ( and I assume is) totally solid, but there is a LOT on a GX that can go wrong and ruin your day. If only they'd bring in the Prado!
Another question: what vehicle would you take in a trans-Canada/America expedition? I'd go with the JK. You've got the dealer network, parts sources, etc. to support it and I like the platform. Toyota would work just as well, though. The trick is to ignore the marketing and get the right tool for the job and your budget, in my opinion.
I bring up budget intentionally: Further through that logic above-- A wrench is a wrench as far as the size goes. But if a table held a Snap On vs. a Harbour Freight special -- I'd grab the snap on. If I only have 1 bolt of an obscure size, and had to PAY for those wrenches, I might go with the Harbour Freight. I bring this up because used Tacos with crazy high Odometer readings are more expensive then some similar year JKs, Rovers, etc. in the used car market here. All other things being equal, perhaps the Taco is more reliable/better. But, buying a used vehicle is a landmine of potential problems. Given that, I'll go with the cheaper vehicle with the solid maintenance history before the more expensive unknown-history Taco which is priced expensively due to brand reputation.
Familiarity is also a consideration. If you've always had Toyota cars and are confident working on them, then a Toyota for Expo work makes sense. Same can be said with any marque. Having a vehicle with a reputation of being more reliable means very little if a piece breaks and you can't fix it.
Everything breaks, its just a matter of time and force!
Great dialog, Thanks -Very true about the GX. Obviously I have one as you can see by my profile. It is very electronicaly reliant for systems operations. Hopefully it will be like my 20 year old boom box, still working when it gets old. I really like it, but would have bought an older LC because in US, I think mods are going to be limited and very expensive. But stock I think time will be very kind to this vehicle and it will be known as a very capable one.
I am fascinated about vehicles that are sold in different countires, such as the JK diesel or the Prado/GX series. They seem to be similar, but have very different parts such as motors.
Major points I take away is simpler is often better, and support lines of communication are important.
I wish Toyota would bring over what I believe is called the troopie sold in Africa or Austrailia that has numerous body styles.
Last edited by sjpomyrn; 06-17-2012 at 07:41 PM.
I'd gladly take any of those on the list, along with some that aren't.
It's also nice to see someone admit that the LR3 is a good vehicle. (Yes, Validation!!) People thought I was nuts when I sold our '96 D1 after buying an LR3. I bought the LR3 for my wife so I could fully take over the D1. But after one long trip in the LR3 to the first Overland Expo, I couldn't stand to drive the D1 anymore so it had to go.
Yes, they are reliable too. Ours is a 2008 and to date the only cash I had to spend was towards real tires, 2 oil changes and front brake pads. And we're closing in on 50k miles. LR provided 3 years of free maintenance and we've had zero warranty issues. HUGE improvement over previous versions of the Discovery.
'08 Land Rover LR3
'05 Subaru Outback
'96 Land Rover Discovery I (sold)
'80 VW Westy