The center mounted winch thread....

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Please post up your ideas, thoughts, pictures and info on center mounted winch systems!

Here is a link to the Canadian patent of the Vector winch system from the Foers Ibex.

http://brevets-patents.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/eng/patent/2307601/summary.html

Here is a page with a decent explanation.....

http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/Foers/Winch.html

Here is a basic picture on how it works...

2307601_20060515_drawings_page1_scale25_rotate0.gif


Pros, Cons, thoughts and experience welcome.....
 

taggart_lumpy

Adventurer
pretty interesting idea

i have my winch on a receiver hitch and power connections both front and rear and just move my winch where i need it plus it isnt in plain sight and prone to weather when not in use.
 

Pskhaat

2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
At EJS one year (~1999ish) there was a cut-up buggy Jeep there that had a front-mounted winch, HOWEVER it had the cable routing extend out of the front, port, back, and starboard side, each of the 4 cable exits had two blocks that acted as the fairlead. The bitter end was firmly attached inside to the frame via metal loops and PVC tubing. He was thus able (though I never saw it) to winch himself sideways and easily recover himself from a roll which from the looks of the Jeep happened more often than forward progress.

Questions:
  • How would you switch to free spooling?
  • How much extra cable is needed?
  • Are you always satisfied with 1/2 speed on the front? Should it rather be mounted aft the vehicle?
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
While the multi-mount winch is similar in function, I have found it REALLY hard to move the winch front to back while in bad snow, ice, and mud conditions. The dang thing always seem to be on the wrong end :)
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
How would you switch to free spooling?

The foers ibex essentially had the winch mounted just behind the rear seat. You could just hit the lever. There are parts from WARN for remote control of that function with a lever, cable, or a small air cylinder.

You could also just power out the winch as needed if your winch would not melt the synthetic line if you where running it. Some planetary winches have brakes that are in the drum and drag when you power them out for long periods. This drag creates heat that can effect synthetic winch line.

How much extra cable is needed?

Basically just the length of the vehicle. You lose a bit, but not much.

Are you always satisfied with 1/2 speed on the front? Should it rather be mounted aft the vehicle?

The winch is usually mounted behind the front seats with the primary line off the drum going to the rear.

To the front with the Foers Vector it is full speed, when you use the rear as per the patent it is half speed. You can also double line the front for more pulling power if needed at half speed.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
sorry yes, in the rear ( per the patent ) you would only get double line and half the distance.

You do always get double the pull force to the rear however. I can see being able to use the rear winching feature to pull trailers up to my truck or pull things onto the trailer also!

Having a few winch extensions is usually always a good idea anyways.
 

LandyAndy

Adventurer
Does the extra complexity of a vector system outweigh the cost & install time to a vehicle not designed from the start to have it. The Ibex has it an integral part of the vehicle so there is no real 'install' cost.

If you look at the winch challenge vehicles in the UK, how many use a vector system & how many have multiple winches... front, rear & alot now centre exiting through a circular fairlead on the top of the vehicles roll cage.

All depends upon what you want it to do.... is it for emergency use only or winning that next comp... and of cause how deep are your pockets..... just my 2c
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
I do agree that it is rather complex....

For me it could solve a few issues.

-A front mount winch, that would be installed in a fashion that I would like, would be very complex on my dodge. I don't like winches that hang out on big bumpers. I would have to completely replace the forward most crossmember on my dodge in order to tuck the winch back enough. This would require a LOT of work including a disassembly of the entire front end sheetmetal, cooling package, tec.

-I don't think I would be happy with just a rear mounted winch, though the install would be pretty easy compared to the front. I could just build a mount into a new rear bumper. There is plenty of room.

-front and rear winches for me would be way expensive. There are also some things you can do with a vector style winch system that you just can't do with regular winches.

-I am concerned about the frame strength, but I think this could be worked around with a proper design.

I think the vector winch system can be a very flexible winch system. Pulling from almost any angle could be very valuable in an expedition type vehicle. I tend to build just about everything myself so I don't really thing it would be THAT expensive overall....time expensive, but not money expensive.
 

JamesDowning

Explorer
Any concern with the frames not being straight? I doubt there are many frames out there that are straight, so you'd have your rope rubbing on the inside of the frame rail. You'd need to add reinforcement in those areas for sure. I can't see using synthetic in this application for this reason, unless you could reinforce the corners with very smooth aluminum.

One other challenge would be fishing the line through the frame to begin with.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Any concern with the frames not being straight? I doubt there are many frames out there that are straight, so you'd have your rope rubbing on the inside of the frame rail. You'd need to add reinforcement in those areas for sure. I can't see using synthetic in this application for this reason, unless you could reinforce the corners with very smooth aluminum.

One other challenge would be fishing the line through the frame to begin with.

It all depends on the system. The ibex frame was fairly straight, or at least straight enough to make it a non-issue. I have seen both synthetic line and steel cable used.

I envision using something like a continuous 1.5", .120 wall DOM tube front to back to act as a guide for the line. The bend radius would be large enough that the wear would be very minimal I think.

The line stays in the tube once its rigged. It doesn't get removed to winch to the rear. To winch to the rear you always run a double line, with the end fixed at the front of the car. You could fish the line through the frame/tube with some wire easy enough to build the system....

I would still love to do this, but I am having a lot of issues trying to find a route for the line rear to front on my truck. There just doesn't seem to be an elegant simple answer.....
 

JamesDowning

Explorer
If you're using a bent tube, you're right, not a problem to fish it through. I could picture the fishing wire getting caught on every little bend inside frame rails though.

As for a simple route, can you not just run the tube along the bottom of one of your frame rails? Weld the tube directly to the bottom of the frame... shouldn't be much interfering with that area and it will be strong enough to drag over some rocks if needed. Or were you hoping to run it higher?
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
I would like to get it above the bottom of the frame. My truck is HEAVY for sure. I could see crushing it fairly easy.

Running it under the frame works well till you get to the front spring hanger on my truck.

I need to go check out directly on TOP of the frame at lunch though! I hadn't checked that path yet.

Thanks for the ideas.....
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
I just checked a few things at lunch....

-Under the frame is pretty much a bust. It works ok until you get to the shackles of the front springs on my truck.

-Top of the frame is a bust unless you installed a body lift.

-Inside the c-channel of the frame along the drivers side rail looks to be the best bet so far. The fuel tank would have to be removed to install the tube line guide, but there is plenty of room inside the frame rail I think. The tub can pass through the transmission crossmember area if the tube is on the bottom of the c-channel. The upper part of the spring shackle hanger gets in the way going towards the front. The tube would have to be run inboard slightly to get around that with a small 4" jog or so. Getting the tube past the engine crossmember along with my crossover steering is next. I think its possible but not nearly as easy as I would hope.

I'm going to keep looking at it....

I did have a thought that the guide tube could be broken up into sections by using a v-band clamp system. This would allow the tube to be installed in multiple parts yet still provide for a smooth enough ID for the line. This would greatly help the install since multiple plane bends could be done in different parts.

On a related note. I wonder if it would be worth just building the tube in sections and then welding it together, kinda like a custom header? I like the idea of cleanly bent tube better......
 

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