The history teacher label is a joke? Please tell me it is. It is quite apparent that you are not in the right field. It is shocking that as misinformed and mislead as you are you feel competent to have a discussion with anyone on 18th century America.
P.M. me for a reading list. You are in need of an education not another education course.
* There are some contradictions in their writings which have to be tempered with the prevailing ideas of the time but also note that many of them reflected on those contradictions and questioned how to reconcile them both in their own minds as well as as a nation.
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1978 VW Westfalia
2007 Suzuki DRZ400s
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed?
Hunter S Thompson
I am a 6-12 grade history teacher with a BA in history, and have won awards for my research papers. My paper on how the AK-47 changed the world was published. Founding Mothers is standard now in history circles, it is not PC trash, John Adams' wife was key in helping her husband, just because they didn't sign does not make them any less important to the process of creating an Republic that has lasted 235 year. The women that would be married to the FF were smart, educated women that could hold their own in topics of the day, because they were trained to by the higher education system of the day for women.
The American Revolution was a fight over economics, the lack of rights of the colonies in the British Gov't, and the personal liberties of colonists, not firearms. As I've said, rifles were an not issue in the colonies, they were used as tools of sport, food gathering, and defense, I would wonder what the FFs and FMs would have thought about the AK-47...if my TARDIS was out of the shop, I would ask them.
I still think my point is valid, the small-arms of the average civilian and the average soldier were very similar if not the same gun. During the Revoutuion and Civil War, the personal weapon of some of the soldiers, was their "hunting rifle", which is one of the reasons the South lost the war, another subject of one of my history papers.
Yes, the FFs and FMs wanted the ability for the citzens to overthrow a oppressive gov't, but that doesn't translate to the right to have M-60s in every home and back of your Tacos. The FFs and FMs were hoping that if it was a given law to the public to overthrow their gov't than it would encourge the political system to listen and adapt to the needs/wants of the citizens... and that could be used instead of the gun. The FFs and FMs tried the political process with the British Gov't before taking up arms. As my wife says: "guns make a bad situation worse."
I personally like guns, grew up with them and owned a few and write on them on my blog and history papers, but I still don't believe that the 2nd Amendment gives anyone the right to bear RPGs, Galting guns, or .50 cal sniper weapons. There is no reason why those should be in the hands of the common people, even if you can afford it or the past the background check, or get a Class-III, somethings simply should not be in the hands of the civilian.
"I aim to misbehave"
Ask Yourself: What Would Jeremy Clarkson Do?
I agree with your point that at the time of the American Revolution there was little if any difference between the firearms owned by the average citizen and those carried by soldiers. However, it is also very clear that one of the reasons why the Founding Fathers ensured we would have the right to keep and bear arms is to provide the ultimate protection against the actions of a tyrannical government. To be sure, their intention was that this would serve only as a last resort when other measures have been exhausted. But having acknowledged that this was one of the reasons for the 2nd amendment, I think it's difficult to argue that citizens should not have the right to keep and bear small arms that are identical to those carried by our military today. To suggest anything else would render the right inoperative for it's originally intended purpose.
Regarding the reasons for the American Revolution I think your description is off the mark. The fundamental issue was that the colonists were not given the same rights and liberties as those of a British citizen across a wide range of issues. It is true that abridgement of economic rights was as issue. But, so too was the abridgement of the most fundamental civil right, namely the right keep and bear arms in order to provide for the self defense of one's self and one's family. The British had engaged in efforts to disarm the colonists for some time, and it is certainly the case that the catalyst for hostilities in the Boston area was orders by General Gage to disarm colonists.
My issue is that we seem to take a very narrow view in terms of what we teach our children about the American Revolution today. In your original post it seemed as though you thought you needed to make excuses for the Founding Fathers having written the 2nd amendment. The subtext was "Yes, yes, it's quite crazy to think that people should have the right to keep and bear arms knowing what we know today, but if you could just imagine the perspective of our Founding Fathers all those years ago you can see why they might have been so mistaken." Frankly, I'd expect a much more robust defense of this right.
I have to once again recommend that you read the opinion by Justice Alito in District of Columbia v. Heller, and the opinions of Justices Scalia and Thomas in McDonald v. Chicago. All of these opinions offer a great deal of background on the historical context for this right, and Thomas's opinion also provides a very interesting discussion on the 9th amendment and how it should be understood to apply in this instance.
I think I will continue to simply refer to the Founding Fathers. I mean no disrespect to their wives, and am fully aware that they provided great support to their husbands, and in some notable cases were deeply engaged in the arguments of the day. It's also true that the Continental Congress was composed entirely of males, and the same is true of the group that later wrote and ratified our Constitution. Sadly, our society is often so awash in political correctness that we fail to recognize it for what it is.
We do have the right to "keep and bear small arms that are identical to those carried by our military today."
There is existing Federal policy, administered by the BATF, that allows any of us (albeit dependent upon ones local residence), after LE review, submitting specific documents for BATF review, and paying an additional tax to own fully automatic weapons, "any other weapons," and destructive devices.
Sad part is we still can't own our own Tomahawk Cruise Missle, though.
Regarding the cruise missile I suspect the more significant barrier is acquiring the launch platform.
The comment about the Tomahawk missile, got me to thinking about gun control of the future. If and when we develop direct-energy weapons, or Gauss-based weaponry, do you think that the gov't of the future would ban them from citizen ownership? Can you imagine a plasma rifle's destructive power during a drive-by....my gods!
I recently learned that someone i know legally owns a sound suppressor...my question is why?
The Taco would make a nice launching plaform! The resistance movement in the Terminators uses pickup trucks!
BTW-I have yet to undercover any documents on General Gage disarming Boston prior to the outbreak of hostiles. Where did you read that?
Last edited by Packy; 01-22-2012 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Additions
"I aim to misbehave"
Ask Yourself: What Would Jeremy Clarkson Do?
There were also a number of instances of British soldiers seizing weapons owned by colonists. The arms seized included some canons that were owned by private citizens, which is interesting given the previous discussion about ownership of military weapons today.
One source I'd recommend is The Founder's Second Amendment: The Origins of the Right to Bear Arms by Stephen Halbrook. The book provides a good overview of the relevant events leading up to the start of hostilities.
Last edited by cnynrat; 01-22-2012 at 09:58 PM.