Jim, I apologize for not responding sooner. Math has never been my strongest suit, so I wanted to double-check my calculations for the electrical demands generated by your starter (you indicated “it pulls 200 amps so at just two starts in a day it has presented a demand of 5 kilowatts to the starting battery.)
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In the checking I did, it was suggested that 200 amps seemed like a low number, but using that, 200A x 12v = 2400W. Cranking 10 seconds for each start would equal .00278 hours or .00278 x 2400= 6.67WHr or .00667 kWHr. Multiplying that by two starts would equal 13.34WHr or .01334 kWHr
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Even if it took ten seconds of cranking to start your vehicle and the starting current was doubled or tripled, I'm not sure how that equals 5 kilowatts. Likewise, I'd be interested in the math behind the .5 kilowatt demand on your Optima.
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I'll be the first to admit Optima doesn't devote nearly as many resources to the off-roading community as they do to other enthusiast groups, but we're hardly a “faceless mega battery empire.” I apologize if you feel like I'm being selective about what I answer, as I am doing my best to address every question you raise. Unfortunately, one of the rules I have to live by in my work, is that I am not allowed to post links to other brands. As you can imagine, that can be a very frustrating limitation, especially when dealing with guys in car audio, who don't think much of our batteries, just because they are made in Mexico, while they swear allegiance to other batteries and have no idea where they are manufactured.
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I really do think you and I are on the same page, we're probably just typing around each other. Optima batteries absolutely do not require an external AGM charger. If the charging system in a specific application cannot properly maintain voltage in our battery (or any other brand), supplemental charging may be needed.
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Our YellowTop batteries do fine with countless OEM charging systems. However, when our batteries (or anyone else's) are used in deep-cycle applications that significantly discharge the battery, an OEM charging system may not be up to the task of replacing the energy that was used. This holds true for refrigerators in trucks, big stereos in cars and trolling motors on boats.
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On our website, we state in at least one location, the following information, “Alternators are NOT chargers. Don't rely on your alternator to do the work of a charger. An alternator is meant to maintain a battery, not charge it.” I understand the difference between maintaining and charging may not always be clear for some folks. That is why I try to use the example of someone who has discharged their battery to the point where they need a jump-start, as that is an experience many folks can relate to. The battery in that example has been deeply-discharged and while it may be possible for the alternator to fully-recharge that battery after the vehicle has been jump-started, the majority of alternators in that situation simply do not have enough time to fully-recover that battery.
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That leads to a cycle of dead batteries and jump-starts, until either the battery, alternator or both fail. Fortunately, there is a way to determine if the alternator is properly-maintaining the battery- measuring the voltage level. Sometimes a battery will become deeply-discharged quickly, when someone is using a winch or leaves their headlights on. Other times, a deep discharge will occur more gradually, as a draw like a fridge or car alarm slightly outpaces a vehicle's charging system, gradually discharging the battery over time. In any instance where a battery ends up deeply-discharged, the battery should be fully-charged with a battery charger, not the vehicle's alternator. If we specifically state on our website that “OEM Alternators are not enough to take care of an Optima battery,” please provide me with a link so we can correct that information.
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My bosses are aware of this thread and many others, where folks have asked for defect rates and unfortunately, that information is proprietary and simply not shared by anyone in the industry. If other companies or brands did share this information, I'm sure you would've found it by now and posted it here. In terms of hiding anything, we're one of the most-forthcoming companies out there. We have a
video tour of our production facility on our website, our warranty terms and conditions are also
posted there and easy to find and we use BCI standardized ratings to describe the specifications of all of our batteries.
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From everything you've described about your battery, if you returned it to your retailer for warranty service and they fully-recharged it and tested it, they'd probably find nothing wrong with it and couldn't offer you a refund.
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I do this job, because I really enjoy the work and enjoy helping others. I didn't ignore the statements you posted by Jerry. In fact, I responded to them directly by pointing out the comments made by Gary Powell. Just as there are people who post about problems they've had with our batteries, there are also folks who post about how well they have worked for them. It has happened in this thread and happened in the thread on Race-Dezert. In the case of Race-Dezert, Gary probably would've preferred to let his competitors continue to believe our batteries were really at fault, when his personal experience and that of his customers suggests most of those who have battery issues really have wiring issues that they blame on their batteries. Gary posted a lot of insightful information in that thread, of which you only quoted a fraction. Folks who have had repeated battery issues might find his posts very informative.
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After reading them, did I expect anyone to admit they were probably doing something wrong and thank him for posting that information? Absolutely not. There is probably too much pride involved for that to happen. The fact remains that Gary has been wiring racing vehicles of all kinds for more than 20 years and has never had a premature failure with our batteries in his own vehicles or his customer vehicles, yet other people in that thread had repeated issues in short amounts of time. If our batteries are to blame for the other issues, is Gary that much of an electrical genius or just incredibly lucky?
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In TJ's case, he indicated his battery was on a 30-year old charger for about 6 hours. You responded to his post, by posting a link to our site that describes charging information for an alternator, battery charger, cyclic applications, rapid recharge and float charging. Even though there was clearly nothing rapid about TJ's 6-hour charging scenario, you posted the maximum voltage for the rapid recharge rate and did not bother to mention that the maximum 15.6 volts must be regulated. Suggesting that anyone should be able to charge any battery at 15.6 volts for 6 hours with no concern for voltage regulation is simply dangerous.
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HenryJ, I did ask our Sales Director who works with NAPA about Eric & Scott Lentz and he wasn't familiar with either.
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Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
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