Optima Battery Problems

TheJosh

Explorer
Thank you Teowaki for all your added input on this matter. You provided all the extra data I wish I could have provided but didn't have the time, so your effort is much appreciated.

I feel like The wool is trying to be pulled over our eyes on these battery issues. O J seems to try and spin it on our wiring and alternators and never once acknowledged on this thread that maybe there is a defective battery in our hands. It's alot easier to displace the blame.

How can we trust optima when they don't even trust their product? Case in point being the warranty. A yellow top warranty is 12 months. I heard the warranty used to be much better but has now been changed to this. So Optima doesn't even believe in their product enough to provide a warranty to match the competition. The diehard platinum warranty is just ridiculous, 4 years! That's a real warranty. After 4 years of stellar service I would be happy to give the company more of my business.

Another example that comes to mind would be the car company Hyundai. Granted they were ugly a few years ago but they offered a 10 year warranty on power train, that's faith in their own product. How did that turn out for them? Look at the cars they produce today, that is The up and coming automotive powerhouse.

I really wish optima would stop spending so much money on trying to hush the complaints and put that money into research and development.

Do you think batteries are like wine as in the climate they are made in makes all the difference?
 

Hilldweller

SE Expedition Society
How can we trust optima when they don't even trust their product? Case in point being the warranty. A yellow top warranty is 12 months. I heard the warranty used to be much better but has now been changed to this.
a quick google
Optima Website said:
D34/78, D75/25, D34, D35, D51, D51R Yellowtops --- 36 months free replacement
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
When I first "met" Jim and queried him about Optima products, I did so by PM. I don't know the ins and outs of his work-day but I bet most of the other glass-half-full experiences such as mine are done via PM.
The open forum is notorious for problem solving, problem venting, etc.

I'll draw a parallel from my personal experience.

On other forums I'm better known as a guy that tweaks headlights and likes to get best performance from lighting in general. Most of the forum members appreciate the work I've done; many solicit my advice for upgrading the headlights on their vehicles. Some of it is in the open forum; most of it is via PM ---- and I'm not a pro at it...

Now, there's another thing I'm known for as a result. I'm very openly against illegal headlight mods, the HID bootleg kits, craptastic IPF reflectors, Halo kits, LED bulbs in tail-lights, and a few others. I'm also pretty vocal about wastes of money like PIAA, Delta, Sylvania Silverstar, Lightfarce, Fyrlyt, etc.
To the people who like those products, I'm a "headlight Nazi" and the venom that spews at me is plentiful ----- glass-half-empty...

Headlight Nazi!! I like it! You can change your avatar title on your own you know. :ylsmoke:

I hate not only crappy headlight mods but folks who modify their suspension but not their headlight alignment.

O-J has a job that can't be easy, putting up with folks like me. :elkgrin: I know he won't be allowed to directly answer most questions. Just like folks in various agencies, they never confirm nor deny as that offers information. If you keep repeating that "...we built a state of the art facility" then some folks will believe that that equates to top quality products.
 

HenryJ

Expedition Leader
It was a 10 year warranty when I started using them. That was well before JCI bought them out. I still have three of the old GG Optimas. IIRC, burn code is 1998. They are well past even that warranty period now and still going strong.
 
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teotwaki

Excelsior!
The warranty got better after 2/1/09 --- bad timing.

OPTIMA Batteries, Inc. will have no obligation under this limited warranty in the event the battery is
damaged or destroyed as a result of any of the following events: improper installation; damage or
destruction by abusive overcharging; collision; theft; improper maintenance or mishandling of the battery;
natural forces such as wind, lightning, hail, etc.; any willful or negligent act; penetration, or opening of
the battery case in any manner.



So a bunch of my posts are essentially an attempt to technically define that I don't fall in these buckets: improper installation; damage or destruction by abusive overcharging, improper maintenance

So far I'm convinced that my installation is mechanically & electrically correct, the charging system is working correctly and my external charger is the correct type. At this very moment I've got my Watts-Up analyzer on the fridge to collect usage data while it is parked for most of the day. What I really need is a way to do the same for the battery.
fridgeoptima0101.jpg
 
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teotwaki

Excelsior!
Collected a day's worth of data. Todays temps were cool but not cold and truck was in the shade. The fridge sucked only 3-ish AH during the whole time it was parked, about 10 hours. It pulled about 2 amps while running from what I saw.

View attachment Engel_Optima.pdf
 
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brussum

Adventurer
What caused the amp spike at 1825? And, why is the amp draw the same at 1827 (with the fridge shut off) and at 1330 (with the fridge on)?
 

HenryJ

Expedition Leader
Keep in mind that the battery acts as a shock absorber in the charging system. Changes in the amperage flow are not always directly proportional to the alternator output.
Think of the system in terms of water. The alternator is the pump, the wires the pipes or streams and the battery the lake. The pump tries to keep the lake at a set level. If a pipe is pulling from the lake it may take a while for the pump to react and the lake to be drawn to the point the pump begins to refill.
Taking readings at random intervals, while helpful, may not tell the whole story. If detail is needed the readings would need to be graphed in shorter intervals over a long period. Keep in mind that this is just the flow from one point to another and in one pipe. To get the whole story each pipe and its attachment points in the system must be defined. This may be fun to watch , but I'm not sure it would be helpful to the discussion at hand as the system has already been demonstrated to be functioning properly.
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
What caused the amp spike at 1825? And, why is the amp draw the same at 1827 (with the fridge shut off) and at 1330 (with the fridge on)?

The 0.03 Amps is just the low level draw of the electronic circuits in the fridge without any motor current. The Watts-Up can sometimes capture fairly high peaks which are very short and likely due to inrush current. So far the data shows the fridge pulls only 2 Amps when the motor is running steadily as at 18:25 and later at 19:08. What is interesting is how low the battery sinks in V minimum (12.11 volts) and during the course of 11.5 hours on battery it has only pulled 3.623 Amp Hours total. Yet an hour and a half of drive time does not seem to be enough to replenish that amount for the battery. This is where an Optima engineer could be really helpful but O-J has been absent of late.

Some of your questions may be helped by understanding how the Watts-Up works. Not as good as a true data logger but for $60 it is very useful

http://www.powerwerx.com/digital-meters/watts-up-meter-dc-inline.html
manual: http://www.powerwerx.com/techdata/Watts-UP-V2.pdf
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
Keep in mind that the battery acts as a shock absorber in the charging system. Changes in the amperage flow are not always directly proportional to the alternator output.
Think of the system in terms of water. The alternator is the pump, the wires the pipes or streams and the battery the lake. The pump tries to keep the lake at a set level. If a pipe is pulling from the lake it may take a while for the pump to react and the lake to be drawn to the point the pump begins to refill.
Taking readings at random intervals, while helpful, may not tell the whole story. If detail is needed the readings would need to be graphed in shorter intervals over a long period. Keep in mind that this is just the flow from one point to another and in one pipe. To get the whole story each pipe and its attachment points in the system must be defined. This may be fun to watch , but I'm not sure it would be helpful to the discussion at hand as the system has already been demonstrated to be functioning properly.
Most important to me, the Watts-Up gives me the total Amp Hours that the fridge has consumed over time. A nice datalogger would be great! So if my alternator can easily source the amps, what is the engine run time that it takes to replenish the Amp-Hours and do the OEM charge profiles handle an Optima's needs?
 

brussum

Adventurer
I figured it was related to the fridge cycling on and off. More data points probably would've been beneficial, but its tough to do if you have a day job. Thanks for the clarity.
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
I figured it was related to the fridge cycling on and off. More data points probably would've been beneficial, but its tough to do if you have a day job. Thanks for the clarity.

We need the day job to fund the fun, right? :elkgrin: The annoying thing about all of this is that I've had to put so much effort into figuring out why a fairly new Optima cannot stay charged, even though it was recently made in a state-of-the-art facility. :ylsmoke:
 

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