Emaergency Survival Kit; Hoping For Your Comments

[LACamper]

Karma,
A few points, but as far as my background: I've been a backpacker in SE LA for years, done some light caving and very light climbing. But more importantly I lived through Katrina times (we evac'd but I was back here pretty quick). Nothing will make you focus on survival like that storm did.
First, you might as well toss that cell phone. In the case of a natural disaster the towers will either be down or overloaded. Ours went down during the evac while the storm was still 2 days away. While an iridium is out of my budget, I'm intrigued by the SPOT. Assuming cell coverage is probably going to be problematic after a natural disaster, who would you call anyway?

Your plan of only being stuck for 3 days is based on what? I thought I was evac'ing for a few days and would be back at work the next week. Instead we had an area of destruction bigger than you can imagine. We had government agencies pulling guns on each other trying to find fuel. Gas, food, water, ice, power, communications, etc. was down for a week as far north as Jackson, MS.
Don't discount your firearm. Nothing wrong with a good .22 rifle. It'll take down a deer or discourage a human. Wouldn't be my first choice as a defensive weapon though. A slug loaded 12ga was my go to gun during Katrina.
Clean water is always the first priority in a survival situation. Get yourself a pack of 'Potable Aqua' to start with, then start looking at water filters.
Finally, go camping. Take your truck out. Pretend you just broke down. Try surviving. Make a list, what would make your life more comfortable.
Things that worked well for me during the recovery:
My pelican head lamp (w/ Duracell batts, not energizer). A camp saw. A bunch of carabiners and some climbing rope. Crystal Lights and Poptarts. Duct Tape. A good first aid kit. Spyderco pocket knife. My favorite crow bar.

Something I wish I had at the time: more tire repair plugs. A V6 in my ranger (rolling trees with a 4 cyl was not good but I do miss that truck <totalled while parked in a hit and run>).
A good dog. I didn't have one at the time, I do now. Nothing like having someone watching your back for you.

 

[Karma]

HI LA,
Your story is fascinating and useful for a natural disaster. But the purpose of this thread is survival that is vehicle based. I'm sure there is some commonality but, in general, they have nothing in common. For example, you did not not have the use of cell phones because the cell towers were down, blown down. How does this apply to this thread? While I would never bet my life on cell phone coverage, where there is coverage, they could be useful and I would use them. You could not.

The same differences apply to nearly every issue that has been brought up in this thread. I'm not in the slightest interested in survival from natural disasters. At least, not in this thread. I do hope you came out of Katrina in good shape.

Therefore, I don't understand the point you are making.

Sparky

 

[squatch]

Stuff happens... Like rolling your jeep and getting knocked out. Maybe coming to and not knowing you even have a beacon let alone know who you are.Like I said stuff happens...

 

[Karma]

HI squatch,
And your point is? Other than stuff happens?

Sparky

 

[Honu]

Dont forget a good IFAK (individual first aide kit) with a tourniquet.

agree but I say carry two tourniquets

the idea if you are in a accident bad enough to need one you might need two ? and they pack small and if needed you have them ? if not well if its that bad you are hosed

but I know many in certain fields will always say carry two

just a thought

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

HI All,
I thought I should post a picture of my Jeep so you can get a context for our discussion. Here is is:

Your set-up appears very overloaded and top heavy, is it safe?
What is all that stuff for? Do you have special needs?
I checked but did not see any trip reports from you, how long are your trips and to where?

 

[KAILUAZ]

agree but I say carry two tourniquets

the idea if you are in a accident bad enough to need one you might need two ? and they pack small and if needed you have them ? if not well if its that bad you are hosed

but I know many in certain fields will always say carry two

just a thought

Yes at least two, I started slow as most people will tell themselves they dont need one. If you do get one then you need two. If the bleed is bad enough or the TQ breaks then you need to be able to apply another one.

I just came back from the SOMA (Special Operations Medical Association) Expo here in Tampa and the good news is there are several different TQ's coming to the market. Dont forget some combat gauze to help stop the bleeding.

 

[Karma]

Your set-up appears very overloaded and top heavy, is it safe?
What is all that stuff for? Do you have special needs?
I checked but did not see any trip reports from you, how long are your trips and to where?

Hi Land,
Yep, it is overweight. However, I took real care to keep the CG as low as possible considering the weight.
The lift is 2 1/2 inches on 31's so it is not a high vehicle. I have the undercarriage almost fully skid plated. With the tools in trunk and the winch and all other large items located around the original CG, there is not much change from stock.

Note that I have a soft top. This cuts out a lot of high weight that a hard top would add. The weight on the top rack is mostly the gas and water cans. I do carry my Pull Pal up there. The Pelican cases are used primarily for their resistance to weather. Inside them is most of my camping gear which is almost all light weight back back packing stuff. The interior is packed very neatly. I really hate a messy Jeep. I like everything packed such that I can get to it easily.

There is only one seat. The passenger seat has been replaced by a ARB fridge/freezer. The rear seats are long gone replaced by a large Tuffy trunk.

Would I like the weight lower? Yes, always. But given what I carry, I don't think it is possible to any significant degree. Please don't argue about what I carry. It has been carefully thought out and it works for my needs well. The pictures show the Jeep fully outfitted for a self contained camping trip. On day trips the Pelican cases are removed (they are easy to take off) and I normally would not carry any gas cans. I always carry at least 1 water can.

No, I do not have any special needs other than my age. I'm 70.

The real test is how my Jeep performs on the trail. I can tell you that is performs very well. Dual ARB's and low gearing works wonders. I do not pamper it. I want it to pamper me. I see no need to make significant changes.


If you are interested here is a link to my vehicle profile in another forum:

http://jeepspace.jeepforum.com/Karma

Before this discussion about my Jeep goes further, I'd like to end it. The issue in this thread is a survival kit, not my Jeep build. That's a whole other thread.

Sparky

 

[Sawyer]

HI rocket,
I know the PLB system works and works well. I'm betting my life on it. As for gaining survival skills, I agree. But, in truth, I do plan on sitting back and waiting. I hope there is beer in the fridge. That's my plan until someone can prove it wrong. I think it is the only plan that has a good chance of working in remote places. All advice I have ever heard from the pro's is to stay with your vehicle. I repeat. I have no plans to walk out.

What if your vehicle is in no condition to stay with either? Maybe you dont walk out, but all your gear is gone or damaged? What are you going to do?

I'm not ignoring at all. I have given this issue a lot of thought and I basically think I have it close to right. If the suggestions make no sense to me, I will, and should, question it. However, there have been some good ideas that I will use. I have acknowledged these. Just because I ask for ideas is not a reason that I must accept them. If they are different than mine, I should ask about the reasons they are brought up. For the most part, I feel that most folks do not have any more real life experience than I do in survival situations. Thus, very often my guess is as good as theirs.

I guess the rub is you keep coming across as everyone else is wrong. Ask the question, take it all in and make your own big boy decisions.

Therefore, I don't understand the point you are making.

And your point is?

I am not sure you will ever get the point no matter what any one tells you. You have made up your mind how your scenario is going to go and anything any one else tells you doesn't apply. So, what is the real point of this thread?

The truth is no matter how much you prepare, nothing will go as planned. Trusting your life to an electronic device is just plain stupid. Are they great to have? Whatever gets you through the night. What happens if you wreck your jeep and your PLB gets damaged? What if a car fire happens and all your "survival gear is lost"? What if you are hiking along and you slip or take a tumble and again your beacon is damaged and you now have a broken leg or worse and cant walk? What if that happens while you are away from your gear? How do you know your beacon is working properly in the first place??? The best and only way to survive is to think and plan for any situation you can and then remember something is going to happen you didnt plan for. Because it always does. And by plan... I prefer to do it with as little as possible. Because you can never be sure to have everything with you.

And so you know MY experience, I am an EMT and Wilderness EMT, I have been on Back Country Ski Patrol teams, SAR Teams, Mountain Rescue Teams, and attended S.E.R.E. school when I was in the service.

If you want to know what "I" carry, I will be glad to share, but I dont get the impression you are really interested in others input.

 

[Karma]

HI Sawyer,
I think you are missing the point. Most everyone here has their own scenario and strategy.

This may or may not make sense to me. I'm flat not interested is anything but my own situation. In your post you mention situations that I probably won't face. If I do, I'll die. I have no choice but to try to deal with the most highly probable scenarios. I cannot cover the entire gamut of possibilities.


Since I am placing such heavy reliance on my PLB, it is central to my strategy. Can you offer any real situations where a PLB failed to do its job? Tell me. I need to know.

I would very much like to know what you carry. But, please give me the freedom to ask and question. If you can try to define the scenario around which you plan. Also, what vehicle do you use?

Sparky

 

[postalWagon]

I dont think it is about the PLB failing, its user error. The times that a body (dead) is picked up from a PLB activation comes from the user not planing on having a few extra things, for the weather or a longer stay. This is where beating Murphy comes in, nobody plans on rolling their rig or breaking a leg on a moring hike. However its these types of things that can happen and that catch you of gaurd.

just an idea for you to work with, the STOP tool: (some questions I teach and was taught on how to handle things)
STOP(Stop, Think, Observe, Plan)
Stop: you have this one covered
Think: are you ok, is any one near by, do you know where you are, is rig ok, can you drive out?
Observe: Can I see a major land mark, am I at risk of sever weather(flash flood, snow at alt), what stuff do I have that works or is not broken?
Plan: Do I need to move, what things can I put up to make it easier to find me, what can i do to stay safe and comfortable?
this is a short list of things that can help you make good choices when stuck.

If I may, I think the question you are trying to ask is:
"What equitment, besides what I alread have, should I have on hand if I am stuck in one place, with out a choice, for a short term in the wild?"
Would that be correct?

Respectfully,

 

[ThomD]

Welcome to the Internet, where people don't answer the question you asked, they answer the question they wish you had asked.

Good for you for rejecting feature creep. You have a specific situation you are interested in. For your scenario, I'd look at HAM instead of cell phones. More water. Maybe a solar charger (sized depending on what you plan to run of course). Signal mirror. Replace the tent with a simple tarp (unless you already have a tiny tent.). I forgot, was there a hand held GPS on the list?

You might think about your situation in terms of specific risks. "Vehicle immobile, engine works", "Vehicle dead, engine dead, main battery dead", "Vehcile dead in unsafe location, must abandon". All scenarios with and without minor/major injuries - think in terms of your mobility and ability to exhurt yourself.

More water.

For food, if weight is not an issue (staying with the vehicle), canned foods like beef stew would be a good choice. Don't forget a can opener. Pick something you would eat cold.

 

[Honu]

HI Sawyer,
I think you are missing the point. Most everyone here has their own scenario and strategy.

This may or may not make sense to me. I'm flat not interested is anything but my own situation. In your post you mention situations that I probably won't face. If I do, I'll die. I have no choice but to try to deal with the most highly probable scenarios. I cannot cover the entire gamut of possibilities.


Since I am placing such heavy reliance on my PLB, it is central to my strategy. Can you offer any real situations where a PLB failed to do its job? Tell me. I need to know.

I would very much like to know what you carry. But, please give me the freedom to ask and question. If you can try to define the scenario around which you plan. Also, what vehicle do you use?

Sparky

hope your fridge is strapped in really good and you have a good tie down over the top !!
not sure how long you have been wheeling ? but you ever been in a roll over ? I KNOW YOU DONT PLAN ON IT SO IT WONT HAPPEN

honestly I think quite a few here dont have a scenario they plan for the worst and dont have some preconceived notion a rescue is going to be sit in your jeep with your comfort things waiting at the most 3 days for rescue ?

I have met (and rescued) quite a few people who did not plan on being in trouble and the trouble surely did not fit THEIR SCENARIO !!!!

you have to realize your problem the second you need to be rescued becomes someone elses problem

 

[JLH9]

Karma

This is simple. Your definition of the term 'survival' is vastly different than what seems to be the majority of folks responding to your post.

Just seems like you are planning on a weekend camping trip, but using a broken down or stuck Jeep instead of a tent.

You have answered your own question, you have food, water, shelter and a beacon. I don't think you'll need anything you don't have in your jeep. But what you are planning for is NOT survival as you called it, it's camping. Again I think our definitions differ.

 

[1911]

Can you offer any real situations where a PLB failed to do its job? Tell me. I need to know.

On a different 4WD-oriented forum that I used to frequent, there was a real case of someone off-road in California that broke their leg and activated their SPOT PLB. The first problem was that no emergency services of any kind were monitoring for PLB's. The second problem was that even when someone who was monitoring his PLB status (a friend or family member, don't remember which) contacted the appropriate emergency authority nearest broken leg's position, they didn't have the knowledge necessary to locate the victim from lat/long coordinates provided (indirectly) by the SPOT. The situation was eventually successfully resolved without the intervention of any emergency services. So, it wasn't that the Sot PLB failed, just that it did not directly result in any help or rescue. I'll see if I can find the original reference and post a link here.