4WD PU buying advice

[Durango]

First, let me say I just found this place and you folks have the whole overlanding thing dialed in. Congratulations. Now if I can tap in to your collective wisdom...

My wife and I are in our mid fifties (OK, I'm almost turning the clock to 59) and are in excellent health. We have recently returned to the SW after 13 years doing volunteer work in the Dominican Republic. We've always loved the desert and mountains so I bought a new AWD Highlander last year and fitted it out to camp in the back. But I quickly learned that it was a) too cramped and b) worse, no low range for any serious off-roading.

So my latest plan is a 4WD crew cab (gotta have room for the three kids when they visit but mostly just the wife and me) with shorter bed and a FWC Hawk on top. Group consensus here seems to lean toward a 3/4 ton and I'm fine with that. (Or would a 1/2 ton open up my options?)

So the big question: Where is the "sweet spot"? I can afford to buy new (maybe one of the rebated 2011's?) But this will be a third vehicle for two people and it seems a bit silly to tie up that much money on seldom driven transport. But then I hate vehicle problems and especially so in the back country.

As you can see from my sign-in we're located in Durango, CO and will be using the PU for moderate off-road stuff for isolated camping in Canyonlands and Colorado mountains. Maybe down to southern AZ and NM in the winter. No super serious stuff like Black Bear as my wife's nerves aren't up to it.

I doubt we'll put 10K per year on the PU and it will sit in our garage mostly. I just had this epiphany and am not under the gun to buy- maybe before next spring. So suggestions, observations, "what would you do", etc? My very sincere thanks in advance.

Steve

PS In my preevious 20 year life here in the SW I was a majorly addicted white water rafter so if anyone wants advice there feel free to write me. But I'm pretty much a newby to the overlanding lifestyle. My wife is a serious bird watcher and nature lover so we are looking forward to it.

[pods8]

I personally like the dodge quad cab design, I appreciate the 4 independent doors verse the ford supercab (and whatever chevy calls theirs) without having to go to a full super crew that ford has (and again whatever chevy calls theirs). The dodge quad cab is 3" bigger than a ford super cab and the bed is 6'-3" rather than 6'-6" which is a nice compromise to me. However if you're looking at a 2011 3/4T dodge now does a "crew cab" in place of their quad cab which is a tad bigger and adds a few inches to the wheel base, still not quite as long/big as a for super crew at this point.

If ford had something inbetween their supercab and super crew cab which is where the dodge quad cab fits in I'd have highly considered them in my recent vehicle change (bought a 2007 Dodge 2500 quad cab). However all my preferences revolve around the fact I'll have people in the back of mine (which I think a ford super cab is really too small for on a trip of any distance) and I don't want to have to open the front doors to open the back ones up all the time. The ford super crew cab is a bit bigger/longer wheel base than I prefer as well.

My $.02 on cab design/wheel base. Lots of other preferences out there to consider on drive trains, etc. but I'm trying to address your 4 door question.

[98dango]

I would find the truck that fits you and your likes. I know from my life having a truck that is comfortable to sit in for hours and set up in a why easy for you to use. Can make a trip good or bad if its not comfortable you wont use it. Be it Ford Chevy or Dodge I would skip brand new and look for a older truck 05 06 in that area save you some serious money. For the mileage you are going to use it. Just be sure to go threw it and have it checked over. I would get a 3/4 ton or better just for weight ratings and stronger parts. The gas vs diesel will come up. That your choice some don't want to deal with the smell and the extra cost of ownership along with the extra cost to buy. That said every truck has its down fall. The Chevy trucks tend st be lower easier to get in stock but easier to get hung up but ride the best in my opinion. The Ford and Dodge are higher off the ground but ride rough. If you are looking for a jump in and go truck i would look at a Power Wagon or FX4 Ford. The Power Wagon is only a short box.

[Durango]

Good points re: the cab size. I was looking at the Ford extended cabs and only a midget could fit in there! But I'd like the length to be as short as possible. Are there any issues to be aware of in the mid 2000 Dodge Quad cabs? Would a 4WD Dodge 1/2 ton be "OK" with a FWC Hawk? (We do tend to travel heavy.)

Thanks again,
Steve

PS Given our cold weather I'm leaning against diesel but I haven't driven anything diesel in the states since my 1980 Suburban 20 odd years ago. It got old snaking that extension cord out into the motel parking lot on trips! I do understand the new diesels start better now ...

[ExpoMike]

Honestly, I would not even consider any 1/2 ton truck. "Can they do it?", yes but should they, no. Even my 3/4 ton Ram, rated at 8,800 lbs GVW, we are at 8,500 lbs loaded. Yes, the Cummins adds a few hundred pounds over a gaser but it would be overloaded for a 1/2 ton. Don't make that mistake that I have read many others have. I don't think I have read of anyone with a pop up camper (or even hardside) that owned a 3/4 ton, that wished it was a 1/2 ton but I definitely have the other way around.

Might want to consider a later 2000's era Dodge Power Wagon (I believe they are 3/4 ton). Outside of not being a diesel, it's a rockin' package that would work well.

[Durango]

Nice web site, Mike. I see that you have the long bed Dodge PU with the Quad cab. I've been leaning short bed for better handling in tight areas. Am I wrong here? The LB option will open up a lot of choices for me plus more space in the camper is always a good thing. What does everyone think?

As always, thanks in advance.
Steve

PS And I've assumed a manual tranny would be better for off-roading but they are few and far between. Will I be OK with auto?

[pods8]

I just got rid of my 2003 Dodge 1500 quad cab 4x4 5.7L that I carried my hawk around on. I had a tranny temp guage, airbags and E rated tires. It handled it fairly well but there was room for improvement. Braking could be better and the gas tank was only 24 or 26gal (can't recall exactly) so range was limited at times. I was only getting about 12mpg on the expressway (75mph), I could get 13 or maybe a little better running on flat highways at 60mph. I just bought a 2007 Dodge 2500 quad cab 4x4 5.7L. Can't compare the two in action yet but braking should be improved, I won't be pushing my payload as much, and I have a 34gal gas tank now. (I am having to make some steering upgrades to the 2007 but the previous owner was running 35x12.5 mud tires so I don't know how much those wore things out).

The 2004-2005 auto's have poor program. All the hemis run a 5 speed transmission with 4th and 5th being double over drives. In 2003 you could lock both out with "OD off" which you'll need in the mountains. 2004-2005 you only had tow haul with locks out 5th only and isn't going to handle the mountains well. 2006+ has both tow/haul and OD off.

Powerwagon: Nice package but they're heavier and run 4.54 gears so they're getting a couple MPG less than regular 4x4's with 3.73s so factor that into your travel plans.

[bob91yj]

If you look at the Chevy/GMC Duramaxes, the 06-07 Classic are the cream of the crop for that truck. Highest rated engine for that generation and the 6 speed Allison transmission with manual controls for all gears, minimal smog equipment compared to the new body style 07's and up.

[brianjwilson]

It sounds like you travel pretty light. Depending on the type of equipment you want in a camper, there are plenty of half tons that will work. Several of the new f150 trucks have a 7700lb payload with a crew cab 4x4, which often gives around 2000lb of payload. A four wheel camper hawk (or shorter "raven" model) would be a great fit. A custom phoenix camper (built outside of Denver) could work well too.
Personally I like my roomy crew cab and 5'6" bed. The truck rides great, but still has a short wheelbase and great turning radius. A lot of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks will beat you too death off road, and most of the chevy trucks I've driven a lot off road will squeak and rattle like crazy off highway (just my experience).
Right now I'm hauling a 7' hardside camper and the truck is overweight but it handles very well. I'm looking at either the FWC Raven or a Phoenix camper now as the taller and wider hardside doesn't physically fit most of the places I like to explore.
If I were to buy a brand new truck right now it would still be another f150, because it works well for my use. Although there is certainly nothing wrong with a bigger, just keep in mind that a 3/4 ton diesel will probably have less payload than a lot of half tons.

[John E Davies]

I'm not familiar with the weight of your proposed camper, but if you do think a half ton truck would work for you, test drive a new F150 EcoBoost before crossing it off your list. You REALLY need forced induction for Colorado, and this is your only option if you don't want a diesel.

The EcoBoost 3.5 V6 has 420 ft lbs, and 90% of that is available from 1500 rpm to 5000 rpm. Whohoo! If you aren't going to be hauling four tons of trailer, that is way sufficient. There is always an aftermarket turbo or supercharger, of course, but there goes any drivetrain warranty. There is a lot of extra power to be had from this engine with tuning.

The 4x4 Crew Cab can be found with up to a 2400 lb payload. The IFS limits it's off road capabilities, but for most easier mountain roads like the Alpine Loop, it would work fine with larger tires.

My choice would actually be a 2010+ RAM 3500 Power Wagon with a diesel, which doesn't exist, but you could always install a Kore Recon off road suspension to a standard RAM and you would be happy. ... http://www.koreraceshop.com/dodge-ram-2500-3500.aspx

There is NO difference between RAM 2500 and 3500 except for the rear springs and the GVW sticker on the door, and an extra $1000. Chrysler had lots of issues with the earlier Cummins emissions system, but other than the reduced mpg that all new diesels suffer from, they seem to have fixed the Cummins situation for all years with a new ECU flash for the 6.7 liter engine.

The new PowerStroke is a wonderful engine, but it is a real PITA to work on, and the Ford exteriors and interiors look crude compared to the newest Rams. (The RAM Lariat interior is sweet.)

The Chevy is nice, but it's low frame and IFS really limit its off pavement capabilities.

Keep in mind that a half ton may suffice for the FWC, but a 1 ton truck will handle the load easily, allowing additional payload for off road armor and recovery gear, and will also allow you to upgrade to a much heavier camper a couple of years from now, if you decide you want some luxury features and larger tank capacity. But the 1 ton truck won't be much fun to drive when it's empty.... compromises, compromises!

I love Colorado the high country and am thinking about relocating to the Durango area....

John Davies
Spokane WA