Expedition Portal: The Land Rover 109 IIA Build

[greenmeanie]

All the more reason to avoid over-torqueing bolts on older vehicles! Seriously, though, while I agree that on LRs some fixings aren't really torque critical and can done by feel, if you have the correct tools and figures, why not use them?

Read the previous thread. Read the link and understand the point being made is that on a 40 yr old truck with fasteners that have seen repeated cycles that the manual, written based on the assumption of new parts and new fasteners may, is unliekly to be CORRECT. As you mention the laziness and ineptitude of other owners I presume you have your torque tools calibrated? If its not calibrateed its NOT the correct tool for those situations where torque is critical. The purpose of torque is to preload a joint not merely to achieve a click to make you feel good. Under torquing is just as bad as over torquing.

Enough on torque. There is a good thread showing some great justification for adding extra fusing not only to accessories but to the existing circuits too.

[Snagger]

I understand that point, but even an uncalibrated torque wrench is going to be accurate within reasonable tolerances (unless seriously abused), tolerances which will have been considered by LR given their their world and remote market applications, which is more than can be said for mere guess work by a heavy handed or limp-wristed bodger. I think you're on a losing argument, greenie!

[Antichrist]

The idea of an R380 swap interests me.

http://www.eastcoastrover.com/5speed.html

Of special note there, which may or may not be an issue, is that you can't use the transfer case PTO, which means no PTO drive hydraulic pump for a winch. No mention if the bottom PTO would still work.
If you also use an LT230 (which will let you use the PTO) you can use the Ashcroft part time conversion because of the single cardan front axles.

[Snagger]

Of special note there, which may or may not be an issue, is that you can't use the transfer case PTO, which means no PTO drive hydraulic pump for a winch. No mention if the bottom PTO would still work.
If you also use an LT230 (which will let you use the PTO) you can use the Ashcroft part time conversion because of the single cardan front axles.

If I'm not mistaken, the Ashcroft conversion kit allows the R380 or LT77 to fit to an unaltered transfer box. That would mean the bottom PTO unit would be compatible, if you can find one. The engine or transmission will have to move as the Defender LT77 and adaptor are 100mm longer than the Series box (Disco/RRC box even longer due to the bell housing length). The R380 only had the long bell housing as standard - short R380s are specials and as such are rare and expensive.

It's an uncommon but not rare conversion over here which seems to work well. Keeping the Series Tx box with 4.71 diffs gives a similar overall result from a ratio perspective as a standard transmission with an overdrive. More common here is the complete transfer of a whole Defender transmission to get the LT230 in too, but that means a lot of chassis alteration for mountings and removal of the gear box and bell housing cross members, custom prop shafts and 3.54 diffs (the Defender and Discovery transfer box ratios are lower than the Series (1.4:1, 1.22:1 and 1.15:1 respectively). If running a 2.25 engine, you'd need the 1.4 transfer box from a Defender, or even the 1.6 ratio box from a pre-Defender 90 or 110.

[greenmeanie]

I understand that point, but even an uncalibrated torque wrench is going to be accurate within reasonable tolerances (unless seriously abused), tolerances which will have been considered by LR given their their world and remote market applications, which is more than can be said for mere guess work by a heavy handed or limp-wristed bodger. I think you're on a losing argument, greenie!

That tells me you are a wishful thinker Nick. The Rover designers have just specified the standard torque for a 3/8 BSF grade S bolt with +/-10% tolerance. No special Land Rover ju ju but common engineering practice. The tolerance built in by land rover was sizing the bolt and the lock washers under the head. Do you bodge or do you check these and replace them as necessary while breaking out the torque wrench?

Talk to anyone who deals with torque and fastener preload and once they've stopped laughing at you they might explain the general relationship between running torque, locking torque and UTS. They will then explain to you a little about preload. There are large factors of safety built into a bolt. If you torque a 3/8th bolt till it snaps you have no business working on mechanical equipment without supervision. If you have good known parts then use good practices and torque properly. If you have unknown parts and used fasteners and are concerned about torque then follow common practice to establish the correct value.

There are a whole load of factors you need to take into account to get an accurate torque even with good tooling. Even if it went click and made you feel chuffed with yourself at how clever you were to use your tool its easy to be up 50% out. Heavy handed or limp wristed is up to you depending on how you go about it. Poor tools don't help that. If you are going to go haverin on with a superior attitude about mechanics skills then at least do it right. Can you get away without doing it right? Yes, but then so do millions of people who never touch a torque wrench which only says the design is tolerant.

If you are looking into gearbox swaps talk to Matt at AA as they have a very nice adapter for the series transfer case that covers most US gearboxes. For a series an NV3550/series combo would be interesting. I personally don't see anything special in an R380 to warrant its use in a conversion in the US. Even a 4 speed top loader like the NP435 comes with a 1:1 output which gives you a nice gearing upgrade over the stock 1.15:1 for cruising without overwhelming the engine. IIRC it also has a slightly deeper 1st. The close ratio GM variant is well suited, cheap and strong. If you do ever consider an engine upgrade its easier to mate these gearboxes to US engines.

[Antichrist]

If I'm not mistaken, the Ashcroft conversion kit allows the R380 or LT77 to fit to an unaltered transfer box.

Yes, they have that kit, but also one to convert the LT230 to part time.
http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co...&productId=322

On the subject of what to use; for me, sticking with Land Rover parts helps maintain more commonality of parts/spares since I have several Rovers. For others it may not matter and so the sky's the limit.

[Yorker]

It's an uncommon but not rare conversion over here which seems to work well. Keeping the Series Tx box with 4.71 diffs gives a similar overall result from a ratio perspective as a standard transmission with an overdrive. More common here is the complete transfer of a whole Defender transmission to get the LT230 in too, but that means a lot of chassis alteration for mountings and removal of the gear box and bell housing cross members, custom prop shafts and 3.54 diffs (the Defender and Discovery transfer box ratios are lower than the Series (1.4:1, 1.22:1 and 1.15:1 respectively). If running a 2.25 engine, you'd need the 1.4 transfer box from a Defender, or even the 1.6 ratio box from a pre-Defender 90 or 110.

1.15 series high range x's 4.7 diffs= 5.4 ratio (as compared to other brand vehicles that typically have a 1:1 high range ratio [Interestingly the early Jeeps were 5.38, 4.27, and 4.88 IIRC- perhaps that gives some perspective])

with a LT230 you'd likely have 1.22 high range ratio(the others here are rare or special order bits from the UK) with 1.22X's 4.7= 5.73. I think that is going too far unless you are using really large tires. 1.22*3.54 coiler R+Ps = 4.31, that would be getting you in a more reasonable range for on road work.

a 1.4 X 3.54= the same as 4.96 ring and pinion in other vehicles. If you happened to retain the 4.7 diffs that would result in a 6.58 ratio that would likely be completely useless on road. 1.6 X 3.54- 5.66 slightly exceeding the orighinal Series' high range gearing and not in a good direction.

[MattScott]

I've been working on replacing my window channels, it's been such an improvement just getting the front ones done.

Also, the NGK plugs and Genuine wires made a huge difference in the performance of the vehicle!

[greenmeanie]

I've been working on replacing my window channels, it's been such an improvement just getting the front ones done.

Also, the NGK plugs and Genuine wires made a huge difference in the performance of the vehicle!

IIRC the genuine wires are carbon coated glass fiber. Good while they last but in the Phoenix heat rumbling upand down the I10 mine wouldn't last more than a year. I eventually just went with a set from Magnecor and never looked back.

[LR Max]

If I'm not mistaken, the Ashcroft conversion kit allows the R380 or LT77 to fit to an unaltered transfer box. That would mean the bottom PTO unit would be compatible, if you can find one. The engine or transmission will have to move as the Defender LT77 and adaptor are 100mm longer than the Series box (Disco/RRC box even longer due to the bell housing length). The R380 only had the long bell housing as standard - short R380s are specials and as such are rare and expensive.

THe R380 conversion looks very tempting, but super expensive. I'm sorry but if I'm going to be spending big bucks on a $2k transmission, then have to move mounts, change driveshaft lengths, etc, I might as well go ahead with my 6.0/NV3500 swap.

Either way, Matt I'm in the same boat. Haven't replaced wires, rotor cap or button in about 10 years. Not that it needs it, but it probably needs it!!