in search of a good DOKA

SALLHAMv8

New member
Hi,

Love to read the different posts here! The amount of knowledge available here is amazing.

Previously I did post my interested in a DOKA offroad truck/chassis to accommodate my 3 kids, wife and myself. @ that time a Unimog was still high on the wish list. Things cooled down after this thread and the unimog is a no go.

It must be a cheaper option, with enough power to propel us to 90 km/h in most circumstances and a descend comfort level in the cab. Offroad capabilities are not of first importance.

For the moment I'm in doubt if I need to consider a Mercedes 1113 with 168 hp? Is that a good vehicule with above spec's? Fact that it has been build from 1963 to the 90's does say something no?
Less sexy, a mercedes 1019 has been equipped with more horses, bigger engine and is more modern: better?
Magirusz has many option available as well: from 90 hp to 232?
I have been looking for Star, Jelcz and other military trucks. Few are for sale.

Fact is that with actual budget for the chassis only older trucks are on the list.
Someone a good idea?
 

SALLHAMv8

New member
I'd consider MB 1019. See GXV on a MB 1017 (I think both trucks practically same)

Indeed the OM 352, 5.6 ltr engine with 168hp is been recognized like a reliable engine. Meanwhile you may find this engine not only in the MB 1017/1019 but also in the 1113 Kurzhauber. And if I follow my hart the 1113 is the better, and in most cases cheaper option

Thus, Why go for the 1019 if the 1113 got the same engine spec's? Cabin layout better and more comfort?
 

camperman

Observer
Hmm... 1113 is a conventional engine forward desigh while 1017/1019 is cab over engine. Choice is yours - trucks are really has same options. Choose easy engine access on 1113 or 1m saved camper length on 1017/1019.
 

apexcamper

Carefully scripted chaos
well...I am partial to the Iveco/Magirus Deutz side of things. A good 1990 crew cab (huge cab) Iveco 90-16 (extra window between front and rear doors) with a 160hp air cooled turbo diesel, air ride "tilt" cab for easy engine access, and air ride seats hit you for under 6500 euro. Permanent 4x4 with center and rear locking diffs, hi/low divorced T-case, air assist brakes and looks really good on a set of 14.50R20.

The Deutz engine will run forever and the cab is quiet and comfy.
I would recommend the newer Iveco over the '70s and '80s Magirus-Deutz simply because the cab is a little nicer and more insulated, but the Magirus 170D11 comes with a pretty strong centrally mounted winch.

Another thing to consider is weight class. The 90-16 comes in well under 7.5t...the 170D11 is at that weight cab and chassis (winch weighs a lot)

If you need something longer than the 90-16...I LOVE:wings: my Iveco 110-17 DOKA but she is quite long.
Iveco 110-17 blog
 
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SALLHAMv8

New member
@ apexcamper: I'm following your thread since first day. I never interfered because the airbag issue from the first pages wasn't really of any concern (yet).

That being said, I'm wondering what your camper drives like with the new shelter. Although the shelter is low for your length it still high up above the truck cabin, taking a lot of the driving wind. One of my consideration is to have the cell as low as the truck cabin. First off all to enable it entering my barn, secondly because I hope highway speed will be positively affected.

For the moment I'm trying to look @ trucks with 200 + hp. I really want to keep 90 km/h like the standard highway speed. Compared to my Defender TD5 with 136 dunky's and 300 nm in it I feel that a truck need more to meet criteria.

The length of the truck, and especially the cell can't be long enough! I spacious cabin like the Magirusz can only contribute to the fun the kids can get out of driving in the truck. A cell long enough to accomodate the complete family will make the wife happy. With 5 persons I'm not even trying to keep the total length under 7 mtrs. Also the weight restrictions are of any concern for the moment. I have my driving license (although need to renew the medical), and once on the road we will soon enough see what we can and can't do.

The unimog fell of for above reason: to short of a chasis, although the price of an unimog is a show stopper as well.

Thanks already for the reply's
J
 

camperman

Observer
@ SALLHAMv8: If you live in a USA I'd recommend International trucks such as this one or when you really want to drive fast something on a ford f550 or others pickups.
But you live in Europe, then why you not looked at MAN trucks? This trucks been recognized like a reliable. And new MANs cost less than a new Mercedes. And spares again cheaper than for Mercedes. :ylsmoke:
 

apexcamper

Carefully scripted chaos
@ apexcamper: I'm following your thread since first day. I never interfered because the airbag issue from the first pages wasn't really of any concern (yet).

That being said, I'm wondering what your camper drives like with the new shelter. Although the shelter is low for your length it still high up above the truck cabin, taking a lot of the driving wind. One of my consideration is to have the cell as low as the truck cabin. First off all to enable it entering my barn, secondly because I hope highway speed will be positively affected.

It is a little tall but I have had no issues yet. I hit 90kph way too easy, it is a little too high on the RPMs right now. I cruise at between 80kph and 85kph all day. I am moving up to 14.50R20 tires next month (next paycheck) which should give me an easy 90kph to 95kph without pushing the engine to red line.

For the moment I'm trying to look @ trucks with 200 + hp. I really want to keep 90 km/h like the standard highway speed. Compared to my Defender TD5 with 136 dunky's and 300 nm in it I feel that a truck need more to meet criteria.

For mine, the designed gross weight is over 12000kg and I am sitting just under 7500kg, so aside from having to downshift for some of the major hills on the autobahn, the six speed trans keeps me running with the big guys. Personally I like where I am at, with the 160 horse 6L turbo, I pass more gas stations than some of the larger trucks.

The length of the truck, and especially the cell can't be long enough! I spacious cabin like the Magirusz can only contribute to the fun the kids can get out of driving in the truck. A cell long enough to accomodate the complete family will make the wife happy. With 5 persons I'm not even trying to keep the total length under 7 mtrs. Also the weight restrictions are of any concern for the moment. I have my driving license (although need to renew the medical), and once on the road we will soon enough see what we can and can't do.

I agree there. To be honest, we looked at a lot of trucks, even considered stretching the frame on a couple we liked. In the end, we could not find a truck with a large enough cab, the off road performance, AND a 5 meter bed except the one we got. Look around, getting a 5 meter bed DOKA without getting a third axle is no easy task.

As for the weight class, keeping it under 7500kg allows my wife to help with the driving on longer trips and hopefully keeps us in a different bracket for international travel with regard to border crossings and fees, third world bridges and small village roads (just from pictures I see a lot of the 7.5t restriction signs)
a39_sml_56.jpg


Another truck we looked at seriously before we tried to go light was the Iveco 120-23(can you tell I love that Deutz diesel?). Over 230hp and a 4 meter bed, large central mounted winch. Ultimately the 13L engine was going to drink too much for us and the added power was not worth the weight cost and especially fuel cost. On an 8000km round trip drive (we are planning a Sweden Finland Norway trip for our first major run), the difference between a 6L straight 6 and a 13L V8 in fuel would be substantial...several thousand euro difference

Good luck, let me know if you have any specific questions about my truck that I can help you with, and if you ever get into southern Germany, you are more than welcome to stop by.

Cade
 
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LukeH

Adventurer
Hi there,
Judging by the trucks you’re looking at you are in the same price bracket as I was, for exactly the same purpose truck. You’re right to eliminate the Mog, you really don’t get much living space for your money on the back of a DOKA Mog. In fact they hold their prices so well you just don’t get much at all in the price range we’re in. 130hp and poor soundproofing.
The Mercedes denominations you’re looking at are all good trucks, but remember how they name their trucks:
1017 is 10 tonnes and 170 hp
1019 is the same thing with 190 hp
I have a friend with a 1017 and he had two problems with it:
it is geared low, even if you stick it on 14 x 20 tyres. He solved this by finding longer axle gears and now it can cruise at 90km/h at around 2500rpm.
170 HP really is not very much, and with only a 6 speed box you’re quickly in a low gear and crawling up even feeble inclines. You get there, sure, but in the soft stuff it’s less certain.

I think you can deduce what the 1113 works out as. Heavier with fewer horses? It’s age implies poorer soundproofing too. No thanks.

It was this second problem that stopped me from opting for one of the dozens of ex-mil 170 hp 4x4 trucks from Iveco, Magirus, Mercedes that are available.
I also felt that most of the crewcab DOKAs ate up too much camper space, so I was looking for a short DOKA, higher power long wheel base truck.
Municipalities sometimes sell off their snowplough units with 6 seat short cabs, but the salt they spread wreaks havoc with the bodywork and a clean one is as common as rocking horse manure…

I went down a different route, which I would recommend only to very competent and well equipped welders (which I am not): Once you get away from the DOKA fixation you find that there are more modern, more powerful and non-military trucks for similar prices.
So I made my own DOKA to measure. Cut up a second cab and welded it onto the back of the first. Took about six weeks in total (in sporadic bursts spread over 18 months) and it was damn hard work, but now that it’s ready to be sanded and painted I’m really happy with the result.
Went from two door:
IMAGE_107-1.jpg
to four door:
IMG_3182-1.jpg
. I have a 5.1 m payload for six seats in the cab on a 4m wheelbase.
That was one of my NICE ideas, it certainly wasn’t a GOOD idea (there is a subtle difference); if you have the time, the energy and the lifting gear it’s really rewarding. But it’s not for everyone.

I’m glad Apexcamper has joined in, I love his truck; nearly bought it myself. I believe Philipp still has one left. Thanks for the input you’re making me further doubt my choice :smilies27

That 120-23 Apexc pointed out on Mobile is a lovely truck! :drool:
The fantastic Deutz V8 that powers the MAN KAT bolted into in a lighter faster truck (once it’s on 14x20s it’ll be nicely geared up)! The KAT engine tuning market is thriving in Germany so all engine parts are available too (with a high pressure pump you can easily get 400hp and under 30L/100km out of it if you fancy on such a light truck). Your argument for the big cab fits for this one.
It’s also really quite young! 1992 was a good year! OK so it’s a bit thirstier than the 6L but it’ll run directly on WVO and with a big enough tank you can stock up for quite a few months driving!
Hah! Just like computers and wives, one should REALLY STOP LOOKING after one has made one’s choice! Otherwise you end up seeing what you could have had.

I’m sold on the air-cooled Deutz concept even if I didn’t get one myself. Separate cylinder heads mean that even IF you blow a gasket you still have seven running and the cooling system isn’t affected, cos there’s no liquid to pee out everywhere. And watching all those youtube vids of Tatras underwater shows that they can’t be that sensitive to being submerged either (they wouldn’t be running at optimum temp but how long does a river crossing last?)

Intrigued by your box, if you keep it at cab height it’s either a magnificent huge flippac or a lifting roof. Bending over all the time gets old quickly.
 

Itinerrant

Observer
Hello,

For the moment I'm trying to look @ trucks with 200 + hp. I really want to keep 90 km/h like the standard highway speed. Compared to my Defender TD5 with 136 dunky's and 300 nm in it I feel that a truck need more to meet criteria.
Well the cell of my truck exceeds the cabin of about 60cm. It's a lot, but I'm tall and besides that, we needed three bunk beds on top of each other, so we ended up with a 2.40 meters high cell. We only have a 180HP engine but we can easily maintain 105-110 km/h, on a flat road though. At the left end of the green (economy) zone of the tachometer, we're at 90 km/h. And at the edge of the red zone, we are well over 120 km/h. However, speed decreases rather dramatically when the road starts to go up. When it's very steep (like on the E411 highway at Wellin, coming from Brussels), I may finish at the top of the hill at 50 km/h (but it's the same for the other trucks anyway). So I'm planning to upgrade power from 180 to 220-245 HP and torque from 700 to 800-850 nm. On a big highway trip like we did from Belgium to the south of France, we can maintain an overall average speed of 80-85 km/h, setting the cruise control @88 km/h (GPS speed) for optimal fuel consumption.

The length of the truck, and especially the cell can't be long enough! I spacious cabin like the Magirusz can only contribute to the fun the kids can get out of driving in the truck. A cell long enough to accomodate the complete family will make the wife happy. With 5 persons I'm not even trying to keep the total length under 7 mtrs. Also the weight restrictions are of any concern for the moment.
You are right. But I wouldn't go for the extra long cabin you often see on the Magirus trucks (which can accomodate up to 9 people) :
  • the extra length of the cabin, you lose for the cell,
  • bigger is noisier and also more difficult to heat up / cool down,
  • if you put your children at the back, I think they would be way too far to sustain a conversation without shouting loud ! :)
  • it is heavier to lift up should you have to gain access to the engine.

Just my 2c.
 

apexcamper

Carefully scripted chaos
You are right. But I wouldn't go for the extra long cabin you often see on the Magirus trucks (which can accomodate up to 9 people) :
  • the extra length of the cabin, you lose for the cell,
  • bigger is noisier and also more difficult to heat up / cool down,
  • if you put your children at the back, I think they would be way too far to sustain a conversation without shouting loud ! :)
  • it is heavier to lift up should you have to gain access to the engine.

Just my 2c.

Itinerrant, your truck has turned out beautiful, I followed the thread...hope mine comes close to that.

As for the Magirus cab, I think you are right...but the newer Iveco cab sitting on the Magirus-Deutz engine and chassis is a different story.

The sound proofing is very nice, My wife can sit in the very back of the cab and converse without having to raise her voice, and this from someone who has trained his ear to tune her out ;) We removed everything from our cab that wasn't a forward facing seat (those 9 pax cabs, the back row are two benches facing each other).

My daughter feels more a part of our conversations in "Maggie" than in my LWB Range Rover Classic simply because in the Iveco driver and passenger seat are far enough apart that they feel like chairs in a small room, not a front row of seats and a back row, with high seat backs separating them.

The Iveco cabs come with a diesel fired aux heater under the rear bench, but we did a run recently with the temp in the 0 to -5 range (I know, not super cold) and had to crack the windows just from the normal heater...have only used my aux heater for the first 5 to 10 minutes of a trip till the engine gets warm. There is loads of insulation in the walls and I would put my engine-based heater up against any water-cooled engine heater (I say that having never taken a trip colder than -5...so know where my experience, or lack there of, comes).

My truck has a hydraulic tilt cab. The longer cab does not tilt as much as the single cab trucks, but it is good enough to access the engine with easy. Mine is a manual-pump tilt cab...AND THAT SUCKS!!! It is a staggering number of pumps and takes quite the effort for each pump. I plan, at some point, to install an electric pump...but in truth will probably not see it as a high priority till the first trip we take and I have to manually pump it up in 35 degree heat.

I truly have no argument for the length issue...the cab does eat a lot of the overall length. I had to get an 8m truck just to have the cell I wanted with that cab. We figure we will be in the cab as much if not more than the cell, especially while moving, and wanted some comforts there as well. We have a cool-box fridge and a small drinking water tank with powered spigot because we figure that is where the "traveling" is done. I guess it is a matter of taste. I love my truck but will admit to occasionally shaking my head at how crazy long it really is. I don't think I would have done it differently with my family...but when my daughter moves out and it is just the two of us, we will be going for a shorter truck. That is if we can part with our monster:)
 

Itinerrant

Observer
Hello Apexcamper,

Thanks for sharing your real-world experience, I'm sure the owner of this thread will appreciate it as much as I do !
 

SALLHAMv8

New member
It's great to see all the pro's and con's melted together with experiences from people. Doesn't make the choices easier tough. The long Magirus 120-23 and mercedes 1222 LF16 cabin is a currently more a decision problem than an advantage.

This above trucks fit nicely in my budget and basic vehicule spec's, but the cell I have in mind will not fit on the flatbed because it's to long. I was already checking if I got move the complete cooking and eating part of the cell to the cab, thus having the cell only for sleeping and sanitary. Therefor I need to see how such a cabin looks like. Apexcamper is right that the cabin is the first place of living when on the move. And once you stay somewhere it's a loss of place. In our people carrier we can turn the front two seats to the aft thus making a small dining room. We do use this option, and I may imagine in a truck you can do the same?

The beds of the kids will be like Itinerrant: all above each other. That in combination with the height issue (the barn: stay +/- in line with cabin height) push me to a pop up roof. I don't mind that @ all.

Power is an issue if I read the reply's. I can feel that the +200 hp idea isn't that bad if I want to follow MAN's on the E411 :)
(yes, I'm from Belgium, currently working in the Sates) Power and age will make the difference. I like the V8, my RRC stays with me for that reason.

I like planning and thinking around it. It's like building a house. When finished I loos interest and want to move to the next...(computers and wives?)
 

LukeH

Adventurer
Hello Apexcamper,

Thanks for sharing your real-world experience, I'm sure the owner of this thread will appreciate it as much as I do !

+1!
Not just the owner; I feel a bit silly learning about how good the Ivy-Mag is. I somehow think I should have gone that route.
Now I just have to convince myself that a 4m wheelbase for overall truck length of 8m is more suitable for me so I don't feel so bad.
 

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