Tacoma Regear or Supercharge?

Trail100

Observer
So, just another thought .. the last I heard some '12 Tacomas aren't able to be supercharged because the ecu update isn't available. I'm sure it'll be sorted out but may be a temporary deal breaker for those voting SC.
 

downhill

Adventurer
Yeah - I can't wait to see the thread on that. :rolleyes:

All for lack of performing periodic glovebox door latch maintenance... tsk, tsk.

Oh - and all that other stuff before you mentioned - well said/good gouge!

LOL, yeah well, his wasn't for lack of maintenance. In fact, his problem was doing the maintenance. (sorry) No gouge intended, just making the point that it's usually the little stuff that gets you.
 

cruiseroutfit

Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
Couple comments....

Never confuse TRD "engineering" with Toyota engineering. TRD parts are very often rebranded products from another company. I'm not sure who actually designed and manufactured the supercharger kit in question, but I highly doubt it has the same level of engineering that the original truck did.

All subjective but it is Toyota's TRD engineers that design/spec the products. I've had the opportunity to meet a handful of the TRD engineers and I was extremely impressed. They go through a fairly substantial design process and as I understand it the Toyota mothership in Japan pretty much has to give them the nod on all their designs. There were by all means some SC issues with the first generation offerings on Tacomas and others but they have really refined the current generations.

So, just another thought .. the last I heard some '12 Tacomas aren't able to be supercharged because the ecu update isn't available. I'm sure it'll be sorted out but may be a temporary deal breaker for those voting SC.

Interesting, I had not heard that but I am not surprised as this has been the issue with other minor change offerings.



Great thread guys, again I don't want to come across as 'SC or no way' but I have in fact been 100% happy with my setup and sidelined the re-gear project as I just didn't see any benefit and borderline saw drawbacks such as losses at top end.
 

TangoBlue

American Adventurist
LOL, yeah well, his wasn't for lack of maintenance. In fact, his problem was doing the maintenance. (sorry) No gouge intended, just making the point that it's usually the little stuff that gets you.

Yeah, I know, but if you don't tease Dave he feels ignored. He's got the shipfitters disease bad...
 

downhill

Adventurer
Question for you Kurt,
I find the offroad manners of the stock 4.0 very forgiving. Good even power flow and fairly easy to control the throttle over rough terrain. Does the SC make trail work more touchy? Your thoughts?
 

cruiseroutfit

Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
Question for you Kurt,
I find the offroad manners of the stock 4.0 very forgiving. Good even power flow and fairly easy to control the throttle over rough terrain. Does the SC make trail work more touchy? Your thoughts?

No, not that I have noticed anyways. I had a very similar platform Tacoma albeit manual not automatic, before my current '04 so it difficult to compare between the two tranny variations. However I really can't say I have any complaints about throttle control on or off-road. The SC's engagement is predictable and steady and is very unnoticable at the lower RPM's. Ive driven a handful of 4.0 SC'd setups but honestly have zero off-road seat time in any of them so I can't comment how it relates to my 3.4.
 

downhill

Adventurer
No, not that I have noticed anyways. I had a very similar platform Tacoma albeit manual not automatic, before my current '04 so it difficult to compare between the two tranny variations. However I really can't say I have any complaints about throttle control on or off-road. The SC's engagement is predictable and steady and is very unnoticable at the lower RPM's. Ive driven a handful of 4.0 SC'd setups but honestly have zero off-road seat time in any of them so I can't comment how it relates to my 3.4.

Thanks, I have a manual transmission as well. I wasn't sure if you had a 3.4 or 4.0. It's all good data. I'm curious to see what MV decides.
 

turboale

Observer
For what it's worth, my 3.4l has been sc'd for over 130k without any issue. (only driver error ;-)) The sc is very predictable off road because it's belt driven, though being used to turbos anything will feel predictable. One major thing that hasn't been mentioned about the sc is that you will have to run premium.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
 

mvbeggs

Adventurer
Dang....look at the brain on downhiller. That's some good homework.

Yeah, I know. That's why I was glad to see Downhill pick up on this thread. :)


...I would recommend the most radical solution yet: leave it stock. I spent some time on the Grimm Jeeper calculator and guess what? There are gear options to keep you in the power band of the stock engine at both 65 and 85 with either the auto or the 6spd (assuming 255/85-16 tires). The only hole occurs with the auto when the speed drops to 55. The drop to 3rd gear is too drastic to use at all, and staying in 4th leaves you at 2000rpm which is flat. ....

Gear Tacoma, 373, rpm vs mph.jpg

Looking at the engine speeds in OD, looks like the Tacoma would be pretty anemic until about 75. My guess is there would be a lot of shifting into 4th on any kind of grade below 75. The SC might add enough power to keep the tranny in OD in the 60-70mph range, but 1629 rpms at 60mph seems too low to me. I'm not sure what the ramifications are for the engine running, at load, for extended times at low rpms. With this gearing, I'd bet the transmission spends most of it's time in 4th until you get above 70mph.
(NOTE: above calcs used a 33" tire size, I may have to run smaller tires with the stock gearing)

...Before I swapped gears I pulled my trailer from MN to OR. It weighed around 2200 at that time, and I did 80 all the way across North Dakota and into Montana with no trouble at all. That was with 32" tires though, not 33.....

I think guys with the manual can get away with this because the manual gears the truck quite a bit lower. I believe the manual bumps engine speeds 200-300 rpm above the auto's at highway speeds.

...The only problems with staying stock are that acceleration with the trailer in tow will be poor, and if you have the auto that 55mph hole will be a major PITA. That is perhaps where the question of the SC legitimately comes in. If you have the 6spd, you won't have the 55mph hole because you have 4th, 5th and 6th as usable gears.....

I agree, I think you're dead on here.

...So here is what I would do. Forget the diff gears. Try the truck stock and see if the performance works for you. If you have the auto, you will be screwed though because you really need the option of 55 on hills, and in some areas like CA, you can't exceed 55 anyway. The SC would solve that, and the acceleration as well if you see the need.....

Agree to a point. Is it hard on the engine to run below 2000rpm under load for extended periods?

Agreed, stock is a good point to start the evaluation. I am in no rush on this build. I have no trips planned that requires the Tacoma to be built a particular way by a certain date. Slow, thoughtful and deliberate is going to be the motto for this build. Not my usual MO. :)

... The only remaining question then is the trail performance of the stock gears. That can be more than fixed by adding a crawl box. Actually, a twin stick with a crawl box would be the ultimate....

I haven't looked into crawl boxes. Who makes them and what is the multiplier? I've read a little about the twin stick. What's the advantage in a Tacoma?

...Remember this. Once you hit the steep mountain grades you MUST slow down. If you get the SC and stand on it up a steep grade with the trailer in tow you will weld that rear diff. This is no BS. The one positive aspect here is that the 3.73 gears should run cooler than a lower gear set. They are the best choice with the SC, but you need to keep an eye on that till you understand how it works. You can use a simple infrared thermometer, but you need to get the number quickly because the temp drops fast once you stop.....

I liked your idea of putting a temp sensor in the rear diff. (from another thread) Where did you mount the gauge? Seems like you recomended keeping diff fluid temps below 200..

...Ultimate rocket taco = stock gears + SC + crawl box + twin stick. Just use the SC sanely to keep it all in one piece. Gas mileage will be what you make it. That SC doesn't run on air alone. You push 30% more air down that intake and you will need 30% more gas to make it go boom....

"Rocket Taco", I like that. I might steal that idea from you too. :D

Great information from everyone. Thanks for the help and keep 'em coming.
 

mvbeggs

Adventurer
I went with the re-gear for a few reasons:

1For your stated needs (85mph), I think you SHOULD go with a SC. Re-gearing will definitely take away from your top end when you're chasing your friends.

As for me, I'm happy with the Toyota's 4.88s. I had mine installed by a reputable shop so I'm not worried about failure. 70mph top speed (well, top comfortable speed) can get old on the interstate but we don't try to do more than 300 miles in a day so it's not that big of a deal. Maybe if I change tires I'll bump up in my 'top speed' but the decreased gas mileage will probably make it a diminishing return.

Best of luck....let us know how you make out with the decision and install.

I came to the same conclusion on the 4.88's, not going to be real comfortable at hghway speeds for 6 hours. Gas mileage is also a factor...looking for a blend of usable power with acceptable gas mileage. Maybe "flux capacitor" is the answer? :D

Thanks. I'll throw up a build thread when I get started. Tonneau cover is on the way. Planning on adding a Supertop from Bestop that will work without removing the tonneau cover. (going light in lieu of the fiberglass topper solution)
 

mvbeggs

Adventurer
Couple comments....

The other thing to remember is that the supercharger uses a good amount of power to make HP. The added stress on the internals of the engine is greater than just the gain you see at the back of the crank....

That has also been on my mind. My hope is that the engineers have evaluated the additional stress on the engine internals and have determined they are up to the task. I believe the boost of the supercharger has been held down in an attempt to NOT blow anything up.
 

cruiseroutfit

Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
I wasn't aware of that. More details to check out.

Tis true, premium fuels are in fact recommended/required. I can tell you I've been forced to run mid-grade as result of being in a lonely Central NV gas station that had nothing other to offer and I can't say I noticed a difference however it was mixed with a half tank of premium. Come to think of it my wife accidentally topped off a tank with regular grade once too but I added a bottle of octane boost to be on the safe side. Surely a factor that needs to be considered.
 

downhill

Adventurer
MVbeggs,
All the points you brought up are good ones. With my vehicles it is always a struggle to balance these factors when the top speed cruise requirement is 65. At 85 something has to give a little, but it's not too bad. You will have to use the gears and lock the tranny out of OD until 70 or so unless you are on flat ground. You will be in 4th gear allot in the mountains. Nothing wrong with that. One gear is as good as another as long as the engine RPM is right. You will have to manage all this, but you can.

As far as the effects of running boost at lower RPM, refer to my first post. That's what I'm talking about with respect to where the torque multiplication occurs. The drivetrain WILL be running under more stress. I don't think it will be too bad since at 55 you will still be doing 2085 RPM. I would not allow the auto to slip me down below 2000 at cruise. I'm not worried about outright failure at all, just shortened engine life. How much is impossible to say. Maybe 10%? I really don't know, and it depends on so many factors like the maintenance it gets and the way you drive. Bear in mind that I climb allot of grades, so that is where my head is at.

Inchworm and Marlin make crawlers, but I'm not sure about the ratios. You'll need to contact them. This May I'm going down to visit Wyatt at RST and get a twin stick FJ case. For towing it is a big benefit. It allows low range in 2 wd which you will use all the time to back up and make careful manuevers. Of course in an auto you can manage things better because you have the torque converter. I either have to slip the clutch or drive in reverse way too fast. I don't know what Toyota was thinking with the reverse gear in these manuals. It should be 1/2 what it is. Aside from all that, I hate electric gear engagement. I want levers. I'll still have ADD until someone gets a manual hub kit built, but I'll eliminate as many solenoids as possible. It's as much a personal quirk as anything. It's all pretty reliable.

I mounted my gauge on the dash near the pillar. I want it where I can see it. The probe is threaded into the diff housing. You would have to pull the 3rd to do the work right. Clearances in there are tight. If you decide to do it, we can email each other and I can take some pics and measurements to show you the location. That's why I suggested a hand held infrared unit. It's not nearly as good, but a whole lot easier and better than nothing.

Bottom line is, it's doable. This is not a truck that you will toss the keys to a kid and say "go have fun". Managing all this will require a competent driver. Fullfilling all these divergent requirements is asking allot, so some added stress will be there. On the other hand, using our rigs for expo use is also an added stress. It's the price of performance.
 

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