Sleeping bag quality

[lam396]

We bought one of these for our trailer in Colorado

http://www.tetonsports.com/Mammoth-0.htm

very happy with it - even used as a duvet ie the two sides seperated its very warm even at 0deg C in the trailer

as did not want to use the heating during the night.

its big bulky but way warm enough for those chilly mountain nights

Awesome, that gives me a little hope that it will be a decent bag. I'm thinking that I will get the 7-in-1 bag so that I can use it as a single and when used as a double the zipper doesn't end up on top in the middle. I do like the Celsius bags with the hoods though...

 

[STREGA]

Thanks for all the replies. I will agree that a much more expensive sleeping bag would perform better in nearly all conditions but I don't see any extreme weather backpacking trips in my future. I would really like to get a Wiggy's or Western Mountaineering bag but honestly, I'm just not going to drop the coin on one of those for truck and canoe camping. Plus, I want the bag to be able to be used as a double or at a minimum, opened up and used as a comforter and neither of those brands do that. I guess RHINO confirmed my initial thoughts in regards to truck camping not requiring high tech gear to be satisfying.

In regards to fill weight vs advertised temp ratings, is there a standard? If I want a bag to be comfortable down to say 20 degrees, what is the fill weight I should be looking for?

I have 2 Wiggy's rectangular bags that zip together to make a double bag. One is rated @ 0, the other around 30 degrees, so depending on time of year and where we are camping we have a lot of options for the temp. We also have a Kelty double bag that has a down half and a synthetic half, that by itself is not all that warm. We ended up using the down half as a extra comforter with the Wiggys and have yet to be cold, been down to low 20's high teens with it.

As for cost of Wiggys, if you go to their factory they give you a 40% discount which makes them a excellent deal IMO. If you are coming this way you might want to consider them. I bought mine from them because they are local to me and wanted to support local buisness, their customer service is good.

I don't think there is a standard for fill weight to temp rating, but I could be wrong on that. I would think there are to many variables in fill type, construction, etc.

 

[ssssnake529]

For car camping, there's no need to get an expensive sleeping bag. You can get a cheap sleeping bag (or several) that's just as warm as an expensive bag. The expensive bag will be lighter and more compressible, but who cares about that if you're car camping?

 

[ab1985]

I will probably buy something that packs smaller at some point even though I'm car camping. The weight may not be an issue, but when space is at a premium I'd rather have something less bulky.

 

[ckkone]

The Coleman North Rim 0 Degree looks like another nice option for an inexpensive cold weather bag..

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___85293

 

[RHINO]

when i mentioned fill weight i was referring to something i noticed a couple years back last time i shopped for a bag, that is that all the syn fill bags seemed to follow a pattern of about 2.5 lbs for 20* 3.5-4lbs for 0* ect. may not mean anything but its something i noticed.

 

[OverlandGourmet]

For car camping, there's no need to get an expensive sleeping bag. You can get a cheap sleeping bag (or several) that's just as warm as an expensive bag. The expensive bag will be lighter and more compressible, but who cares about that if you're car camping?

I used this logic for years, but have since made the switch to one "nice" bag. While it cost more than the bargain bags, I have one bag that works for tent camping, sleeping outdoors, in the truck, or hiking with a pack. Something to be said for simplicity when it comes to gear. However, I do agree with you - buy the gear that solves your needs, not somebody else's.

 

[ETAV8R]

...
As for cost of Wiggys, if you go to their factory they give you a 40% discount which makes them a excellent deal IMO. If you are coming this way you might want to consider them. I bought mine from them because they are local to me and wanted to support local buisness, their customer service is good.

What part of CO is wiggys in and is this discount public knowledge?

I have way too many bags and want to just narrow it down to just 2-3 bags for my gf and I.

 

[UK4X4]

Wiggy’s Inc., P.O. Box 2124, Grand Junction, Colorado. 81502 (Home Office & Factory)

 

[martin809]

For car camping, there's no need to get an expensive sleeping bag. You can get a cheap sleeping bag (or several) that's just as warm as an expensive bag. The expensive bag will be lighter and more compressible, but who cares about that if you're car camping?

I agree I have a bag from sportsmans (about $60 and 0geg) and it is awesome, my hunting friends all brag on there $200 plus bags that we leave on our hunting property in our campers. I tried to explaine to them the difference but you can't fix stupid

 

[ETAV8R]

Gonna revive this thread for people curious about the Teton brand. This past August I went on a trip to the San Juan Mountains in Colorado. I bought a Teton 0F Celsius bag and also a similar Wenzel bag to do a comparison. I liked the Teton enough to return my -20F Big Agnes to REI. The Agnes bag came no where near the temp rating. I also got my GF a Teton like mine but with opposite zip. So far the bag has worked well. Looking forward to this winter and trying it out in some cooler temps in the desert.

 

[Trailfrog]

I'm not a big cold weather camper but planned to go on a three day trip where lows were forecasted to be in the upper 20's. I move around a lot in my sleep and can't sleep in a mummy bag, I also don't have the budget for a top quality bag. I found this TETON bag and have been very satisfied so far. I sleep with this Kelty self inflating pad and usually sleep in my JK. I am able to sleep comfortably in my boxers. So far only been down to about 27 degrees.

 

[ETAV8R]

Wow. That is good to know that these bags work well at that temp.
I don't have a lot of natural insulation on my extremities. There is no way I could sleep in those temps without long underwear and wool socks.

 

[Sirocco]

The fill weight is in reference to the weight of the down that keeps you warm. The higher the number (ie 800 or 900), the less down you need to maintain the same R value. The lower the number (400-600), the more down you'll need for the same R value. Because of this, the higher fill count bags will pack smaller, weigh less, and have less loft (puffiness) than a lower fill-weight bag. Loft is usually measured by height...from the floor to the top of the sleeping bag when it's laid out and fully fluffed. Looking at one of the comparison charts from either Western Mountaineering or Feathered Friends should give you an approximate idea as to how much down is equivalent to an intended temperature rating with the specific fill value.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the cheaper bags are synthetic, which is great if weight/space isn't much of an issue (car camping, canoeing, etc) and have the added bonus of still being somewhat effective at retaining warmth even when wet. Down is useless when wet. The whole loft/fill weight thing doesn't apply to synthetic bags as you're comparing different insulating materials.

I hope that helps clarify things...

Not strictly correct. Terminology is a little out.

What you have explained is the difference in fill Power This is:The higher the rating 750/850+ the better quality the down, and overall lighter because you need less of the good stuff to achieve the same temperature rating.

when comparing down bags you also need to factor in the fill Weight This is: The amount of down in the bag usually in grams.

To compare anything there is a good European standard called the EN13537. Whilst many says it has it flaws, it at least allows you to compare bags like for like. This system is becoming adopted by US manufacturers like Marmot and a few others.

Testing is carried out like this:

EN13537 requires a thermal manikin test which produces four temperature results — upper limit, comfort, lower limit and extreme. These temperatures were worked for normal consumers.
The standard measures four temperature ratings:
Upper Limit — the temperature at which a standard man can sleep without excessive perspiration. It is established with the hood and zippers open and with the arms outside of the bag.

Comfort — the temperature at which a standard woman can expect to sleep comfortably in a relaxed position.

Lower Limit — the temperature at which a standard man can sleep for eight hours in a curled position without waking.

Extreme — the minimum temperature at which a standard woman can remain for six hours without risk of death from hypothermia (though frostbite is still possible).

For the purpose of these measurements, a "standard man" is assumed to be 25 years old, with a height of 1.73 m and a weight of 73 kg; a "standard woman" is assumed to be 25 years old, with a height of 1.60 m and a weight of 60 kg.

Using this system you can compare bags like for like. For example, I recently had a Mountain Equipment Titan 850 that was comfort limit rated to -12c. This bag uses 625EU down with a fill weight of 850 grams.

for Norway next month I needed something will a little more punch so started looking around. I found a RAB Ascent 900 at a good price and that is comfort limit to -19c. This bag uses 650EU down with a fill weight of 900 grams.

You can see a fairly substantial gain in temp rating for only 100g more down that is slightly better quality.

I ended up buying a Tundra Pure & Dry -20 which uses (EU) 860+ ethical down and is the best down commercially available. It only packs 800 grams of this but is rated slightly better than the RAB and is around 200 grams lighter overall in weight.

There are a few rating systems out there and I would work to see what you are comfortable with. With my original Titamn 850 I was fine to -9/-10 so happy the comfort limit is fine for me. For Norway I think -20 will be ok and we have extra layers and down clothing for when it reaches -30/-40.

I hope this clears things up a little and not confused it more. I have been going around in circles for the past month trying to buy the right bags for our trip!

G

 

[Dave Bennett]

Teton Sports Celsius XL

Anyone have any experience with these?

http://www.amazon.com/Sports-Celsius-Degree-Flannel-Sleeping/dp/B006IYCZF0

Edit: I ordered two of these (L and R zip) to make a big bag for my wife and I on our upcoming Death Valley trip (4 days 3 nights Jan 2013) and I will post some feedback on these bags afterward. I intend to buy a bag from Feathered Friends in the future but these bags should do until I have $850 saved up... and our current Kelty Corona 20 bag is not up to this trip.

The Teton bags are rated to -25 F, I'm fairly skeptical so we will see how they do at night in January Death Valley temps...