Tie Rod VS Heim Steering

[ramsport59]

MY 2nd Gen Cummins is due for a steering upgrade. Two of the Four Tie Rods need replacing. I've been looking at the Thuren Fab Steering Kit that uses Heim Joints instead of Tie Rods. But of course you would need to drill out the knuckles and pitman arm. The Price nearly knocked me out of the seat, so I priced out the build it yourself parts. I can do the job for $200 in materials. I Have built tons of wheelin rigs and other things so I am familar with a welder and bender. What bothers me is Longevity. Keeping spares around wont be a big deal and are cheaper than the cheapest tie rod on my truck. But if I'm replacing them once a year than its not cost effective.

What is yall's thought?

Thanks
Rick

 

[shmabs]

Rick,

This is a debate that could get out of hand quickly, but i will offer my two cents with heims:

I think QUALITY heims are a good option for the maintenance minded, mechanically aware person. The reason i say that is generally a heim isn't quite as "fool proof" as a traditional tie rod end. Tie rod ends are sealed, or should be, so there is very little maintenance other than a once in a while grease and boot inspection. A heim in the case of a daily driver in the northeast is something that will be exposed to sand and salt, and not just in the winter months, both of which can greatly reduces the heims longevity. However if you are okay with proper cleaning and maintenance on them i say go for it! Weather and climate play a big role, but i know of some people who have had good, quality heims on steering systems for years and they are still tight.

as always YMMV.

Mike

 

[ramsport59]

We do use salt on the roads here and I'm sure there will be grit dirt and mud thrown at them. On my offroad rig, I havent had to replace a heim in 3 years and I beat them to hell and back and dont clean them. But no mileage on them. They have held up to 40" tires and full locked front end. Last Year my Cummins had 1500miles put on it. Yes Thats All!

Rick

 

[78Bronco]

A tierod locates into a tapered hole which gives 100% engagement and some reassurance that the stud cannot work loose. Just like a morse taper in machine tooling there is no messing around. A heim joint uses a straight bolt and can work loose easier in a cylindrical hole which is why they are not permitted for on road use in my jurisdiction. They also do not allow lubrication to purge debris from the bearing surfaces.

For a trail rig I would not worry but for vehicle which sees regular highway speeds I wouldn't be pissing around with heims on steering links. Maybe I would try Johnny Joints with a split taper washer to seat into a tapered hole but never would I use a bolt in a cylindrical hole for steering applications.

 

[llirttoc]

I have over 60,000 miles on these rod ends (trail proof) http://bulletproofsteering.com/tubingguide.html. I live in Ohio where salt and brine is used on the roads. My '79 Bronco has been burried to it's head lights in mud countless times. Just two weeks ago removed them to clean and paint. They are still tight and I never had second thoughts about putting them back on. I pull a camper, boat and a 16' trailer with this truck and it's my daily driver. The only maintance I have done is with a garden hose to clean the mud off. Hope this helps

llirttoc

 

[Buliwyf]

I'd stick with stock style ball joints and tie rods. The tapered shaft works best as your truck is not a offroad rig. Heims don't stand a chance in daily NE weather and salt.

Nothing wrong with the stock design, just the Dodge parts. Just get higher quality tie rods this time around.

I'll let one of the Dodge guys chime in on which aftermarket supplier has better than factory tie rods for that truck.

 

[ramsport59]

Let me throw in another option. What about lukes links? Has anyone used these and how do they hold up?

 

[78Bronco]

I have heard Luke makes a good product but have no direct experience.

 

[Scoutn79]

Since you have built off road rigs you already know that are a HEIMs require more maintenance and are used on hard core rigs because they have a larger degree of operation than standard TRE's.
As mentioned they aren't DOT approved (at least non that I know of) ...IF you should get into an accident the use of these could allow someone else to blame the use of the HEIMs as the cause and make you liable.
Another issue it if they fail there is nothing to keep them from popping off of the ball...Some are designed so this can't happen...I would install a large washer above the end of the HEIM to retain it should something fail. Also as others mentioned the taper of the TRE stud keeps slop out of the steering....on a dedicated trail rig a little slop is fine...on a highway rig tire wear and handling are concerns.
As mentioned and my personal preference would be to get quality TRE's. I like MOOG products, but I am sure there are other quality options as well.
Darrell

 

[RMP&O]

MY 2nd Gen Cummins is due for a steering upgrade. Two of the Four Tie Rods need replacing. I've been looking at the Thuren Fab Steering Kit that uses Heim Joints instead of Tie Rods. But of course you would need to drill out the knuckles and pitman arm. The Price nearly knocked me out of the seat, so I priced out the build it yourself parts. I can do the job for $200 in materials. I Have built tons of wheelin rigs and other things so I am familar with a welder and bender. What bothers me is Longevity. Keeping spares around wont be a big deal and are cheaper than the cheapest tie rod on my truck. But if I'm replacing them once a year than its not cost effective.

What is yall's thought?

Thanks
Rick

For an on road truck I wouldn't run hemis, rather use tres. For a dedicated off-roader, hemis is what I use.

 

[squint]

I got rid of the heim joints on mine. Every one that I had would eventually rattle and squeek and drive me nuts. I would keep them lubed and keep replacing them when they started the rattle. It is not that the rattling caused any issues, but I don't like any noises coming from my jeep.

 

[Darwin]

Looking for updates on anyone running Heims or TRE's. I know extreme overkill fab is making a T style steering for dodge rams. Could be another option over 99HD set up for 2nd gen cummins.

 

[Toiyabe]

Living not far from you I'll say this. Heim's are not DOT approved. It won't pass inspection in this state. And in this Nazi Lawyer ruled place if you got into a p************* match with a cop or something badwere to happen they'ed hang you out to dry. I'd stay stock or go with some upgraded stock style stuff from a place like Dynatrack. MD is not exactly known for being big truck and off roader friendly.

Nothing is "DOT Approved". It's not like any parts are submitted to the DOT for an approval.

Also, here in MD, and in VA, heims are fine in the steering. I have copies of both state inspection manuals, and neither bans heims. There is a little bit of fuzzy in regards to modifications and aftermarket equipment, but that's fairly typical. I have had multiple vehicles inspected in both states pass, including being looked at by Troopers in both states.
I used to be a VA state inspector, as well.

Now, I could very well be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time, but I'm fairly certain on this, if for no other reason than I can name multiple cars that came from the factory with spherical bearings/heims in the steering and/or suspension, sealed and unsealed.

ETA:
I ran heims on the steering for my Ranger as an offroad/DD toy, and they lasted about a year in Richmond, with about 10k miles, of which 5k was offroad. The offroad mostly consisted of fast forest roads, with very little rock crawling or mud, and never snow or salt. They were also sealed under a boot for part of the time. The boot made no difference, it was mostly just the load from the tires and the speed. I used quality Aurora rod ends, and they weren't cheap. It was a necessary evil with the travel, however.

 

[pappawheely]

I got rid of the heim joints on mine. Every one that I had would eventually rattle and squeek and drive me nuts. I would keep them lubed and keep replacing them when they started the rattle. It is not that the rattling caused any issues, but I don't like any noises coming from my jeep.

You should run PTFE lubricated heim joints. The PTFE lubricates the joint, they are supposed to be run dry. Adding oil or grease attracts dirt and leads to premature wear. I run heims on my vehicles. I have a prerunner that does lots of miles on the road and off-road at speed. They have held up on my truck for several years but I don't drive it on salted roads too often. If people are concerned about a heim coming apart, what's to stop a ball joint from the same type of failure? Heims are exponentially stronger.

 

[bob91yj]

Now, I could very well be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time, but I'm fairly certain on this, if for no other reason than I can name multiple cars that came from the factory with spherical bearings/heims in the steering and/or suspension, sealed and unsealed.

I'd be interested to know what vehicles came from the factory with heims in the steering linkage.