Is a Rover for me?

PhyrraM

Adventurer
Hello all. I've been reading this forum for a while, but rarely post.

I just messed up the front of my Montero and am looking for a replacement. My uses are mostly taking my kids and scouts camping, exploring, off roading, and daily driving when the other car is down. I'm not into rock crawling or deep mudding, but if there is something cool to be seen "down the road" I'd like to be able to get there. I always like to say "If it IS, or WAS, a road - I'd like to be able to go down it.

I had a '95 Montero SR. It was suited to the purpose really good. Decent power, good room inside, comfortable. Seats seven if asked, or tons of gear if not asked for the passengers. Factory rear locker. 2wd, AWD, 4wd and low range modes. Tons of rear articulation. Will take 32"-33" without a lift. The main downsides are the front IFS, a timing belt instead of chain, and a tendency to pop a head gasket if overheated. Other than that, a really solid and reliable truck.

The frame was not damaged in my incedent and it still seems to run fine, but all the sheetmetal forward of the firewall needs to be replaced. With current gas prices pushing good examples down to $2500-$5000, I'm better off replacing it.

Then I notice that (some) Discoveries (or RRCs) can be had for that money too. I like the idea of upgrading to a front solid axle and the "world platform". I do all my own wrenching, so a truck with a few problems doesn't scare me off - as long as there is a light at the end of the tunnel...no chronic, or unsolveable, problems. Is a $3000 Disco even worth looking at? For "entry level overlanding" is it a step up from the Monty? I will likely never leave North America, but running things like the Mojave Road interest me greatly. I have a few friends with rock Jeeps and it would be nice to head out with them, even if it means using a few of the bypasses on hard stuff.



Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
 

David Harris

Expedition Leader
I've owned a 96 Montero. It was a great vehicle for adventures, but ended up costing me a lot of money in a short time. I went to a Jeep Liberty next. Great vehicle too, very reliable, but not as good an off roader as I wanted. After that I bought my first Land Rover, a 96 Discovery, for only 500.00 with a broken front driveshaft u joint. I fixed that and did the full maintenance and drove it back and forth cross country without a single problem. I then ran into a nicer 95 Discovery with only 100K miles for 700.00. It wouldn't start, but it ended up just being a loose starter wire. Fired right up and ran well except for an exhaust manifold leak, which cost me 50.00 to fix. Been driving this daily without any issues for over a year. I also have a Range Rover Classic which I bought for 1900.00. On this one, I have had to do the brakes, fix a fuel line, and replace the distributor. Otherwise it has been a great vehicle as well. The bottom line is that great deals can be found on older Rovers, and I definitely wouldn't be put off, especially if you like to do your own repairs. Paying to have one fixed could become expensive. As far as performance, they are superb. Drive nicely on the road and have a superior design for off road use in stock form. With mods, the sky is the limit.

David
 

454

Exploder
Rovers love, and I mean love, preventative maintenance.

The problem that you run into is when some guy buys a $2k Rover and then skimps on the pm. He gets in over his head and then dumps the truck. Since Rovers can be had cheap, some cat buys one, refuses (or is unable) to spring for the maintenance, and then dumps the truck when it overwhelms him. Pray that you don't get his old truck.
 

LR Max

Local Oaf
Buy another newer Montero. Their only weakness is they flip over when they get side swiped by a U-Haul truck.

I recommend avoiding U-Haul trucks. Or installing anti-U-Haul truck devices. Like, big spikes or something. Then driving the crap out of it.
 

GroupSe7en

Adventurer
Dude, if you're wondering if you want one - then you probably don't.

You have to want one, to put up with the reality of owning one.

They are the greatest, and the most wretched, depending on what time it is.
If you aren't in love with it...

But, who knows, you might fall in love the second you get behind the wheel.

Best of luck,
Mark
 

I Leak Oil

Expedition Leader
With all the info, good and bad, out there on coilers if you have to ask......
You either want a rover or you don't there is no try Danielson......
The U.S. spec trucks aren't the "world platform". They have the vintage 60's buick V8 instead of the TDI that the rest of the world gets. The V8 is probably the biggest source of headaches with coiler rovers.
 

PhyrraM

Adventurer
Coilers - interesting term. I like it.

As far as wanting one...yes, I want one. I also want a Montero, and a Jeep, and a Defender, and a ______ . I am leaning towards trying the Rover, partly because I always wanted one. However, when dealing with a vehicle where one of the main goals is reliabilty in the middle of nowhere, the familiarity with a Montero is a bit comforting. However, I'm sure that comfort level will come with a Rover in short order too.

So, I guess the question is...Which do I want more? A Toyota 80 series Cruiser is also on the list, but they seem to go for too much considering the equipment level. Typical Toyota, paying for the name.

My main stumbling block on the Discovery is that - on paper - the axles seem weaker than expected. Does this prove to be true in real world conditions? Also is the lack of at least a rear locking differential a major setback? Does the added articulation make up for it?
 

JeremyT101

Adventurer
Although I cannot answer all of your questions regarding the Disco, I do currently own one myself. If I had the funds to get an 80 series LC or a potentially better truck, well, I would have. I picked mine up for 4k, and it had MANY problems (though I did not know this), but it had a totally clean body and frame with absolutely no rust, and low km's. Though, I concede the majority of these problems were caused by other idiots who tried to fix the truck, had no idea what they were doing, bodged parts and wires and generally just buggered the whole job.

I have been without a car for two months now due to this whole situation. Its been in the shop for two weeks now and im assuming it will need another week. THANK GOD I happen to have a very highly qualified rover mechanic 60km away from me who has a bunch of part discos for us to steal little bits off of. I cannot imagine the headache this would have been without him, truly my savior. Though, I know that once the truck gets put back together, and I take care of the old girl as well as I can, it should run to the ends of the earth.

So my advice to you is, if you plan to buy a Disco, or any other LR for that matter, take it to someone who knows these trucks BEFORE you buy it, not just your old plain-jane mechanic. These things are too complex and different and they will miss stuff. If he gives you the green light, and you love it (it was the driving position, power and the feel that really won me over with this truck) do it. If he tells you to run, RUN.
 

David Harris

Expedition Leader
Once you drive a Land Rover, there's a high chance you will be addicted for life. . . You will enter an existence where on one shoulder there is logic whispering Land Cruiser. . . Land Cruiser. . . it would be so safe, so reliable, so easy. . . On the other shoulder there will be emotion whispering Land Rover. . . Land Rover. . . the feel behind the wheel, the performance, the passion, the adventure, sunsets over the Serengeti, Tom Sheppard and the sands of the Sahara, Camel Trophy, true love for a vehicle (sometimes love and hate go together!). . . That's the way it is. . .

David
 
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David Harris

Expedition Leader
Coilers - interesting term. I like it.

As far as wanting one...yes, I want one. I also want a Montero, and a Jeep, and a Defender, and a ______ . I am leaning towards trying the Rover, partly because I always wanted one. However, when dealing with a vehicle where one of the main goals is reliabilty in the middle of nowhere, the familiarity with a Montero is a bit comforting. However, I'm sure that comfort level will come with a Rover in short order too.

So, I guess the question is...Which do I want more? A Toyota 80 series Cruiser is also on the list, but they seem to go for too much considering the equipment level. Typical Toyota, paying for the name.

My main stumbling block on the Discovery is that - on paper - the axles seem weaker than expected. Does this prove to be true in real world conditions? Also is the lack of at least a rear locking differential a major setback? Does the added articulation make up for it?

As far as axle strength, it really depends on what size tires you're running and the terrain. If you're rock crawling etc. with 32 inch and up, then the stock axles will eventually pay the cost. On 31's and down, in moderate off road conditions, I think the stock axles are fine. With a locker installed, you will need aftermarket axles to avoid break downs, because of the extra stress. You can run a limited slip, such as a Trutrac, fine with the stock axles, because they engage more softly and never lock up a 100%. The real weak link is the stock two pinion differentials. Just replacing these with a good four pinion diff makes a world of difference. Anything, Detroit Locker, Trutrac, ARB, or even the factory open four pinion is fine.

In terms of the need for a locker or limited slip, Land Rovers articulate better than almost anything stock, and modded hold their own with any other modded vehicle in this area, so strictly speaking, this makes up a lot for having open diffs. However, the great articulation of a Rover makes lockers all the more effective, and means you can really get into the tough stuff. . . :)

David
 

PhyrraM

Adventurer
I guess my next question would be which Land Rovers to look at? I know about the major differences between Disco Is and IIs, but which Range Rovers are worth looking at? Which ones do I stay away from?

Does the added rear overhang on a Disco II really something to worry about?
Is a tranfercase swap easy enough to put the 2001-2003 Disco back on the list?

Again, on paper, it seems like a later ('97-'98) Disco I seems like the sweet spot?
 

JeremyT101

Adventurer
I can't tell you too much about the RR, but for Discos I can give my 0.02$. If you are going to go for a Disco II I would try to find an 04. They seem to be the decided upon most reliable of the bunch, some had the CDL as standard but IMO I would only go for a Disco 1. The reasons for this are many. The first for me is no air suspension. It is a given that at some point in the truck's life the air suspension will have to either be fixed or replaced, this is not cheap. If you care not about it, you can always do away with it and switch to coils in the rear. its a pretty inexpensive swap kit from a site like Atlantic British.

I also tended to stay away from the DII because of the head gasket issues many of them have. I have heard its like a 10-1 ratio for DII vs DII head gasket failures. Which, I didn't want to deal with.

There are also quite a bit more electrical stuff going on in the DII, notably many people have issues with the 'three amigos' I think its called, few lights that go on on the dash quite frequently.

All of these things put together, made me eventually go for a 98 Disco I. It had everything I wanted and nothing I didn't (expect a good maintenance track record opps)

I now tell everyone who is considering getting a Rover this. BEFORE you buy one take it, even a long drive away, to a shop that specializes in Land Rover. These guys will spot things that regular mechanics just don't know to look for. I wish I had done that with mine, but thats who it is at now after the fact. My guy is a wizard thank god. But still, thats what I would do.
 

David Harris

Expedition Leader
I guess my next question would be which Land Rovers to look at? I know about the major differences between Disco Is and IIs, but which Range Rovers are worth looking at? Which ones do I stay away from?

Does the added rear overhang on a Disco II really something to worry about?
Is a tranfercase swap easy enough to put the 2001-2003 Disco back on the list?

Again, on paper, it seems like a later ('97-'98) Disco I seems like the sweet spot?

For Disco 1 versus 2 look at this thread: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/55142-Disco1-or-2

For Discovery's also read this one:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...ad.php?t=51721

For the Range Rover Classic:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...+Rover+Classic

For the P38 Range Rover:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...ghlight=plunge

For owning a Land Rover in general:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...ad.php?t=20219

As far as the added overhang on a D2, I would say it depends on how extreme the terrain and what size lift and tires you have. Taller mitigates the overhang more. In general, a well modded D2 won't suffer much of a penalty off road.

You don't need to swap the entire transfer case on a 01-03 Disco to give it diff lock. There are kits to add this to the stock transfer case.

I myself am a Disco 1 fan for the reasons given in the links above. However, as an all around vehicle I think the D2's are much more comfortable, quiet, refined and roomy than the D1's, but approach things with a little too much electronics and weight adding luxury items for me. I appreciate the more basic off-road oriented feel of the D1. I would own a D2 if I found one I particularly liked though.

I have to say, though, that the Range Rover Classic has it's own unique appeal, and I go back and forth between it and the Disco 1 as my favorite vehicle to drive.

David
 

PhyrraM

Adventurer
wait so you're worried about gas prices but want to get something that gets worse mileage?

Nope. I got about 14mpg before I ran it off an embankment, and as a part time pleasuremobile I don't need any better. I do place some emphasis on total range, but not really mileage - If that makes any sense.

I was saying that the current price of gas has pushed the asking price of trucks (in general) low enough that replacing the Montero makes more sense than fixing it

There is a good looking '97 Disco XD in the local Craigslist that I want to go and see. It's on eBay too for the curious. There are plenty of others too, ranging from $1000 "needs motor" to $12,000 50K mile '04s. The current local selection seems to be better than Land Cruisers or Monteros so I should be able to find something good. I plan to pick something in the next few weeks. I have a Subaru to fix and sell and tax money is on the way.
 

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