Looking at buying a 03-05 Suburban, what red flags should I look for?

upcruiser

Perpetual Transient
I think most of the main issues have been mentioned so far. One I will add is that the models with auto climate control supposedly have issues.

So, I don't have near the experience as some who have already contributed above. I was considering 1500 and 2500 Suburbans for a couple of years, with probably about 6 months of actively searching for the right one for us. We settled on a 2004 2500 with the 6.0 and 4.10 gears, G80, leather seats, second row bench, and manual dual zone HVAC.

Other than a new at the time 2005 1500 Silverado that I had as a company truck, this is my first real experience driving/owning a GM product. I have been driving Land Cruisers, a Tundra, an FJ Cruiser, and a Land Rover D1 in the past as my traveling, and backcountry vehicles, so that paints my perspective a bit.

We went the 2500 route for the added capacity and the hope that a bit of mechanical overkill would return long term durability. I know you mentioned Z71's but while you are researching, you might as well take everything into consideration. The 2500's came in a 6.0 and 8.1 with 3.73 or 4.10's in either. The upgraded frame, tranny (4l80e), brakes, different engines, axles, etc add about 1,000 pounds of girth over the 1500 and the rear is suspended by leaf springs. It rides stiffer for sure than the 1500's but we still find it incredibly comfortable on the road. I have spent a bit of time travelling in 1500 Burbs so I do have a feel for the difference in ride quality for sure. The 1500's are smoother on rough roads and offroad. The 2500's are a bit more punishing. We just installed Bilsteins and onboard air to aid airing down, definitely a must with the 2500's or else you need to travel at a much slower pace than I enjoy, especially coming from the vehicles we had travelled with in the past. Suburbans are wide, Suburbans are long, no surprise there, so right off the bat you are limited in what types of terrain you can travel without a large amount of lift and tires. On the plus side though, there are few vehicles made at any price point, especially at this used price point, that gobble up cargo, and miles and do so, so comfortably. We joke, its like travelling down the road on our living room sofa.

Ours has 145,000ish miles on it now. We bought it last year, and its previous owner was pretty a pretty meticulous car guy, and it had never seen snow or road salt. So far I have dealt with replacing the HVAC blower fan (~$115), had to crank the front torsion bars a bit since the front end seemed drooped a bit, replaced the shocks and upgraded to 5100's (huge improvement in ride quality and rebound control), I have several dashboard lights out that I haven't dealt with including the steering wheel, I broke a towing mirror (my fault but they didn't extend or retract anymore without help, and I am getting the code for a weak voltage error for my knock sensors, so that's on the dockett.

I think the drivetrains on these trucks are pretty stout for their intended uses. The front ends seem to last awhile if they are kept greased frequently and you use the right pedal carefully. Seems like most of the carnage you hear about stems from giving alot of throttle causing one wheel to have no traction, then suddenly catching. Same with the G80's, the guys doing burnouts and donuts seem to grenade them, especially on the half ton trucks. When used as they are intended, as a slow speed traction aid they are effective. The 2500's tend not to have issues with the G80's. I am still not totally sold on the G80 as its engagement is pretty abrupt and requires a certain amount of wheelspin to engage, which doesn't lend itself to my style of gentle driving in technical stuff. That said, these things don't really lend themselves to technical stuff anyway.

Compared to say a Toyota, only because its what I have the most experience with, yeah, the interior switches and bits aren't assembled to the same standards. Dash lights, stepper motors, window regulators, etc seem to not last as long as on a Yota. That said, replacing that stuff is all pretty easy, and parts are cheap, WAY cheap compared to Land Cruiser stuff. Same with the powertrain, accessories, like alternators, power steering pumps, fuel pumps, etc don't seem to last as long but the drivetrains are notorious for high mileage reliability, with perhaps the exception of the 4l60e trannies in the 1500's. Again though, at this price point, you can swap out those items and still come in way under a similar year Cruiser with much higher mileage. The other nice thing as mentioned earlier is that pretty much any town in North America will have an autoparts store where you can source pretty much anything, in stock, for cheap. Thats amazing. Honestly, from my travels in South America I had seen a decent amount of full size GM trucks so there are part networks even in places like Chile, but honestly, how many of us are driving to Chile?

Someone above mentioned a towing package on a 1500 rated for 12,000lbs? I don't believe thats correct. A 2500 with the 8.1 and 4.10's is rated at 12,000 for towing, I believe a half ton is rated around 7,500 in highest spec for towing. My 6.0 with 4.10's is around 9,500. Just FYI.

I have wanted a 100 series Land Cruiser for awhile, and that was the leader in the options to replace our FJ Cruiser with but we decided we wanted more capacity and the ability to haul our mountain bikes inside the truck behind the second row seats, and have to option to build a sleeping platform behind the second row. When it comes to outright capacities, its hard to beat a Suburban. Can't really think of anything else to add. Oh, regarding the front ends, there are good options to beef up the front ends for piece of mind, Moog and Cognito come to mind. Good luck.
 

kidphc

Member
Definitely piston slap but there some lifter tick. Varies depending which oil brand I use and quality of oil at the time. Never been a concern for me, I consider it normal

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 

upcruiser

Perpetual Transient
What mpg with the 2500?

I have the 6.0, 4.10's, and 285's, on the highway I seem to get around 15mpg according to the trip computer but the speedo is a touch off with the taller tires, so assuming that the trip computer is relatively accurate i am returning a touch better. Thats running mostly o the two lane roads around here, we are a couple of hundred miles away from the closest freeway. So that's running 5 over, at 60mph. I haven't spent enough time at freeway speeds with it to really get a feel for mpg's then. Towing our camper which is around 5,000lbs I get 9-10mpg according to the computer. Around town driving locally I average a solid 10mpg. I don't drive very aggressively.
 

Burb One

Adventurer
I think most of the main issues have been mentioned so far. One I will add is that the models with auto climate control supposedly have issues.

So, I don't have near the experience as some who have already contributed above. I was considering 1500 and 2500 Suburbans for a couple of years, with probably about 6 months of actively searching for the right one for us. We settled on a 2004 2500 with the 6.0 and 4.10 gears, G80, leather seats, second row bench, and manual dual zone HVAC.

Other than a new at the time 2005 1500 Silverado that I had as a company truck, this is my first real experience driving/owning a GM product. I have been driving Land Cruisers, a Tundra, an FJ Cruiser, and a Land Rover D1 in the past as my traveling, and backcountry vehicles, so that paints my perspective a bit.

We went the 2500 route for the added capacity and the hope that a bit of mechanical overkill would return long term durability. I know you mentioned Z71's but while you are researching, you might as well take everything into consideration. The 2500's came in a 6.0 and 8.1 with 3.73 or 4.10's in either. The upgraded frame, tranny (4l80e), brakes, different engines, axles, etc add about 1,000 pounds of girth over the 1500 and the rear is suspended by leaf springs. It rides stiffer for sure than the 1500's but we still find it incredibly comfortable on the road. I have spent a bit of time travelling in 1500 Burbs so I do have a feel for the difference in ride quality for sure. The 1500's are smoother on rough roads and offroad. The 2500's are a bit more punishing. We just installed Bilsteins and onboard air to aid airing down, definitely a must with the 2500's or else you need to travel at a much slower pace than I enjoy, especially coming from the vehicles we had travelled with in the past. Suburbans are wide, Suburbans are long, no surprise there, so right off the bat you are limited in what types of terrain you can travel without a large amount of lift and tires. On the plus side though, there are few vehicles made at any price point, especially at this used price point, that gobble up cargo, and miles and do so, so comfortably. We joke, its like travelling down the road on our living room sofa.

Ours has 145,000ish miles on it now. We bought it last year, and its previous owner was pretty a pretty meticulous car guy, and it had never seen snow or road salt. So far I have dealt with replacing the HVAC blower fan (~$115), had to crank the front torsion bars a bit since the front end seemed drooped a bit, replaced the shocks and upgraded to 5100's (huge improvement in ride quality and rebound control), I have several dashboard lights out that I haven't dealt with including the steering wheel, I broke a towing mirror (my fault but they didn't extend or retract anymore without help, and I am getting the code for a weak voltage error for my knock sensors, so that's on the dockett.

I think the drivetrains on these trucks are pretty stout for their intended uses. The front ends seem to last awhile if they are kept greased frequently and you use the right pedal carefully. Seems like most of the carnage you hear about stems from giving alot of throttle causing one wheel to have no traction, then suddenly catching. Same with the G80's, the guys doing burnouts and donuts seem to grenade them, especially on the half ton trucks. When used as they are intended, as a slow speed traction aid they are effective. The 2500's tend not to have issues with the G80's. I am still not totally sold on the G80 as its engagement is pretty abrupt and requires a certain amount of wheelspin to engage, which doesn't lend itself to my style of gentle driving in technical stuff. That said, these things don't really lend themselves to technical stuff anyway.

Compared to say a Toyota, only because its what I have the most experience with, yeah, the interior switches and bits aren't assembled to the same standards. Dash lights, stepper motors, window regulators, etc seem to not last as long as on a Yota. That said, replacing that stuff is all pretty easy, and parts are cheap, WAY cheap compared to Land Cruiser stuff. Same with the powertrain, accessories, like alternators, power steering pumps, fuel pumps, etc don't seem to last as long but the drivetrains are notorious for high mileage reliability, with perhaps the exception of the 4l60e trannies in the 1500's. Again though, at this price point, you can swap out those items and still come in way under a similar year Cruiser with much higher mileage. The other nice thing as mentioned earlier is that pretty much any town in North America will have an autoparts store where you can source pretty much anything, in stock, for cheap. Thats amazing. Honestly, from my travels in South America I had seen a decent amount of full size GM trucks so there are part networks even in places like Chile, but honestly, how many of us are driving to Chile?

Someone above mentioned a towing package on a 1500 rated for 12,000lbs? I don't believe thats correct. A 2500 with the 8.1 and 4.10's is rated at 12,000 for towing, I believe a half ton is rated around 7,500 in highest spec for towing. My 6.0 with 4.10's is around 9,500. Just FYI.

I have wanted a 100 series Land Cruiser for awhile, and that was the leader in the options to replace our FJ Cruiser with but we decided we wanted more capacity and the ability to haul our mountain bikes inside the truck behind the second row seats, and have to option to build a sleeping platform behind the second row. When it comes to outright capacities, its hard to beat a Suburban. Can't really think of anything else to add. Oh, regarding the front ends, there are good options to beef up the front ends for piece of mind, Moog and Cognito come to mind. Good luck.

The highest 1500 of these years is 8,200 (I believe towing package, non-z71 and the 4.10's will get you this number.) The rest are 7,200ish. Be careful though because some of the hitches are only rated to this with weight distribution hitches and otherwise are limited to 5,000lb.)

The highest 2500 is 12000lb, and I think most or all 2500 are at this number (except maybe the 3.73 6.0's).
 

kidphc

Member
The highest 1500 of these years is 8,200 (I believe towing package, non-z71 and the 4.10's will get you this number.) The rest are 7,200ish. Be careful though because some of the hitches are only rated to this with weight distribution hitches and otherwise are limited to 5,000lb.)

The highest 2500 is 12000lb, and I think most or all 2500 are at this number (except maybe the 3.73 6.0's).

My z71 factory hitch says its rated for 5k and 12k with a weight distribution. The truck itself is rated to 7200.

I really wanted the 2500/6.0L/4.10 combo. G80 on 2500 you never hear about the rear blowing up, plus no real gas mileage penalty if at all compared to a 1500/5.3L, with the addition of hydroboost brakes makes it hard not to want. The 2500 however are a different animal from the 1500.
 

Burb One

Adventurer
My z71 factory hitch says its rated for 5k and 12k with a weight distribution. The truck itself is rated to 7200.

I really wanted the 2500/6.0L/4.10 combo. G80 on 2500 you never hear about the rear blowing up, plus no real gas mileage penalty if at all compared to a 1500/5.3L, with the addition of hydroboost brakes makes it hard not to want. The 2500 however are a different animal from the 1500.
Yep, so z71 limits to 7200 and the hitch limits it to 5k.

Or you could have a 1500/5.3/4.10 sf 14 bolt:). I'm not missing the power of the 2500 especially when I get 16mpg with 33's. The 14 bolt sf from some applications (escalades, hybrids yukons is bolt on for the 1500)

Even towing 6klbs on 33's with the 4.10 isn't that bad!

Also, the 1500 rides, so, so much better. Especially when most of the miles are highway and sans trailer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
 
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justbecause

perpetually lost
The locker, g80 code? Is why I said I wanted a z7, if I can get that without the whole package that's great. Shocks will be replaced anyway, and are the oem skids worth bragging about?

I'm not interested in technical terrain. I tear up a lot of highway miles (at 17mpg in a 4.0 2nd gen frontier) so if I can increase towing ability (I only tow rarely) lots more cargo room, better ride quality, I'm all in.

I expected a 2500 to be in the 12mpg range, at that point other options like the excursion wpuld be on the table.
A 100 isn't big enough to justify the awful fuel mileage and low tow limit. 18+mpg in a full size suv with real 4wd seems to put the suburban in its own class, if there is another option I should look at I'd love to hear it. And I really appreciate all the info.
 

kidphc

Member
G80 is the RPO code for the auto locking rear end on GM trucks, it's made by Eaton. I say generally because you will find that sometimes mostly on cars/trucks the g80 code will refer to a posi-traction (limited slip) unit.

Not sure if the z71 skid plates will fit on a 2500. Since the frames if I remember are a bit different. Really they aren't anything special and only cover the front dif, and oil pan. The transfer case has a small skid plate as well, only looks like it will protect from a small puncture. Pretty sure you can fab something nicer. The rear diff, rear shock mounts and gas tank are exposed (no armor). I think the rear shock mounts on the axle are the lowest points on the car and just stamped steel sheets welded to the axle. Those are all relative moot points because the break over angle and departure angles (hitch dragging makes good places to sow plants on the trail) are you enemies.
 

Burb One

Adventurer
G80 is the RPO code for the auto locking rear end on GM trucks, it's made by Eaton. I say generally because you will find that sometimes mostly on cars/trucks the g80 code will refer to a posi-traction (limited slip) unit.

Not sure if the z71 skid plates will fit on a 2500. Since the frames if I remember are a bit different. Really they aren't anything special and only cover the front dif, and oil pan. The transfer case has a small skid plate as well, only looks like it will protect from a small puncture. Pretty sure you can fab something nicer. The rear diff, rear shock mounts and gas tank are exposed (no armor). I think the rear shock mounts on the axle are the lowest points on the car and just stamped steel sheets welded to the axle. Those are all relative moot points because the break over angle and departure angles (hitch dragging makes good places to sow plants on the trail) are you enemies.


Locker can be had without z71, look for the G80 on the sticker. Also many of them have blown up, so no promises that it's actually in there on a high mileage car (as noted they are mis-sused a lot and the 10bolt (1500) are weak.) A lot of people after breaking put in an open to save some bucks.

I would think that for the price of buying the plates, you can fab or have something fabbed much nicer. They are pretty thin stock, and won't do much IMO except for maybe clipping the top of something. I have a 2500HD trasnfer case skid plate from a silverado on my 1500 Suburban and it bolted right up, for whatever that's worth
 

upcruiser

Perpetual Transient
The locker, g80 code? Is why I said I wanted a z7, if I can get that without the whole package that's great. Shocks will be replaced anyway, and are the oem skids worth bragging about?

I'm not interested in technical terrain. I tear up a lot of highway miles (at 17mpg in a 4.0 2nd gen frontier) so if I can increase towing ability (I only tow rarely) lots more cargo room, better ride quality, I'm all in.

I expected a 2500 to be in the 12mpg range, at that point other options like the excursion wpuld be on the table.
A 100 isn't big enough to justify the awful fuel mileage and low tow limit. 18+mpg in a full size suv with real 4wd seems to put the suburban in its own class, if there is another option I should look at I'd love to hear it. And I really appreciate all the info.

My real world driving experiences spending a few weeks with a 2001 1500 Suburban saw me getting 14-17mpg in real world highway driving. This was on a trip from Park City Utah to Mammoth California, and back. The difference from 1500 to 2500 isn't really that big. I think city driving it ends up being slightly a bigger difference. Regarding an Excursion, they have a very uncomfortable ride and less towing and payload capacity than the 3/4 Burbs. They do have a live front axle and aren't quite the belly scraper that the Suburbans are but they aren't the greatest place to spend a lot of time behind the wheel, from my experience.
 

justcuz

Explorer
I replaced my G80 with an open carrier and a lock right.

When we visited the ranch in Wyoming we were busy talking and I drove right up the hill to the backside of the house without even engaging 4wd. Never did that before, always required 4wd to get up that hill.

So yea, lots of G80's may not be anymore.

My next investment for the 2000 is going to be a 14 bolt semi-float. I'm getting a little rumble when I let off the throttle at freeway speeds, either ujoints or rear axle bearings. I'll do the u joints first and see what happens.

Kristian, thanks for the opinion on the Excursion, I've done a few hundred miles in an F350 and felt it rode fairly well, but it was a crew cab short bed, so a little longer wheelbase than an Excursion.

Interesting comments about Land Cruisers, from the 80 series up it seems the interior space is in the in between spot. Bigger than a 4Runner, but less than a Sequoia. I'd love a 45,55 or 60, but past that I'm partial to the Expedition, Sequoia, Tahoe size vehicle.
We have Suburbans because we do a lot of people moving.
 
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upcruiser

Perpetual Transient
Yeah, I think it's the wheelbase like you said. There might be better riding leaf replacements out there. And yeah, it's hard to beat the space. I used to travel solo in my 80 for multiple months at a time. For one person it was amazing. I built a 1 person bunk in the back, would have two bikes inside and still have plenty of room to move into the back next to the bed. It's crazy how much more stuff you have to bring into the equation when you add a wife and two kids into the mix. Especially when toting biking and paddling gear. The space in the Subs gives you so many options for so many activities. I don't see our family being without one for awhile, even if it does nickel and dime me a bit more here and there. I still lust for a 200 though ;-)
 

justcuz

Explorer
I started my married life with a 1976 Chevy 4x4 pickup and a 1974 Jeep Cherokee Chief. After our second child we bought a 1973 Suburban. That was 29 years ago and we have owned them ever since then.
 

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