What's the coldest you've used a FWC w/ arctic pack or similar?

chris_the_wrench

Fixer & Builder of Things
I've been working on a new camper plan for the past 2+ years. I have the floor plan and the various systems pretty much committed. It will be based off a flatbed mounted on my dodge 2500. One HUGE decision that I have been going back and forth on is whether to do a popup or hardside. Our current lance camper, is obviously a hard side, and we've taken it into -33f temps. We had issues with freezing pipes and such, but I contribute a lot of that to the lack of any real insulation throughout the whole camper and poor placement of water lines, and totally exposed water heater. When we return to such an environment I would probably dry camp.

Now the question I'm soliciting responses for is what is the coldest you have taken a FWC or similar popup, that is equipped with an Arctic Pack or similar?

I really want to go with a pop-up for the lower profile and capabilities off-road, but I want to make sure it can handle frequent use in COLD weather, in the roof-up configuration. How insulated is the arctic pack compared to the hard walls in the camper? Do you feel a big difference if you ran your hand up the inside of your cabin from the hardwalls over the windows and then across the softside? Any issue with the soft sides folding in extreme cold? I don't plan on using the camper in too many -30 to -40 nights, but I do have atleast one more month long trip planned into BC/Yukon/Alaska during the winter. After that it would see primarily lower 48 winter temps as the extremes.

I need to finalize my plan so I can start the build this June.

Thank you for any input you have on the matter.
-Chris
 

chris_the_wrench

Fixer & Builder of Things
I have seen the turtle settup. That was quite the trip -90, woah. I wonder what advancements have been made in the softwall materials since then?

-chris
 

Runt

Adventurer
I use my Phoenix off road camper to -25 degrees Celsius (average this winter) and a few -30ish nights all the time. Mine was set up by Rob with higher amount of insulation, 20,000 btu furnace, insulated lines with heat tape as well as a few other options. Only issue is condensation, which you have with any camper or trailer....I over came this by using a dehumidifier and after 10 days or so I put a small electric space heater in the camper for a day with the fantastic fan on low with the vent cracked. Dry's it right out! I would not go hard sided again. At least not with a small or mid-sized truck.....way to much weight.
 

chris_the_wrench

Fixer & Builder of Things
I use my Phoenix off road camper to -25 degrees Celsius (average this winter) and a few -30ish nights all the time. Mine was set up by Rob with higher amount of insulation, 20,000 btu furnace, insulated lines with heat tape as well as a few other options. Only issue is condensation, which you have with any camper or trailer....I over came this by using a dehumidifier and after 10 days or so I put a small electric space heater in the camper for a day with the fantastic fan on low with the vent cracked. Dry’s it right out! I would not go hard sided again. At least not with a small or mid-sized truck.....way to much weight.

Thanks for the first hand account. I assume the heat tape is only when your plugged in? Do you have water in your systems if your winter camping w/o plugins?

Thanks again, this is the kind of info I was looking for.

-Chris
 

OutbacKamper

Supporting Sponsor
I am a big fan of pop-up campers, but for "frequent use in COLD weather" I, personally, would go with a hard sided model. Specifically one that does not have an aluminum frame. I would suggest something like a Northern Lite or Bigfoot.

My only cold weather pop-up camping experience was a few nights at -30 to -35C in a 4Wheel camper (with no arctic pack). The aluminum frame, and almost total lack of insulation was a bigger issue for me than the soft pop-up walls. The soft walls had some thin ice from condensation, but we had significant ice build-up around the aluminum frame on the inside. Also this type of camper has no insulation at all in the lower walls and floor (all plywood construction). It was also considerable work to remove snow and ice (after a blizzard) from the exterior to allow the roof to be lowered.

I seem to remember that the Turtle Expedition was used without raising the top in the extreme cold weather.

Cheers
Mark
 

brianjwilson

Some sort of lost...
I was thinking the same thing. I've seen plenty of FWC pictures and the frame has a ton of aluminum with very little space for insulation to fit in. The few small pieces of insulation that fit into the frame really aren't doing a whole lot in that situation. Then the whole bottom side is just plywood. In extreme cold you will be running the heat non-stop as the cold will radiate from the frame, and the softside would probably be the least of your worries.
Now if you're buying a shell I suppose you cold insulated the whole camper and build the walls thicker to help out. A camper with composite construction is probably going produce better results, but you're mostly stuck with a cookie-cutter camper that way too. If I were planning to camp in extreme cold like that, and determined to use a pop-up, I would have one custom built.
 

DanoT

Observer
I had Coyote RV build me a custom pop-up Phoenix camper designed for staying at ski area parking lots. The soft wall is two layers of thinsilate knock-off sandwiched between two layers of fabric. The lower section is insulated, not just plywood and there is 1 1/2 to 2" of insulation everywhere. 20,000 btu furnace with a duct to the shower stall and grey water tank. I don't use the fresh water tank in winter and I do not have a hot water tank or shower plumbing. I heat water on the stove and use a primitive shower called a Hot Jugz which is a 2 gal. pump up plant sprayer with a shower head.
I've been comfortable at -18C.
 

NothingClever

Explorer
Somewhere just south of 32 degrees is my lowest temperature in our stock FWC Fleet (without an Artic Pack) so nothing really out of the ordinary. We use a down blanket in the winter so we stay snug as a bug in a rug. We definitely use more propane in the winter. No issues with condensation but when we camp we're usually 9,000ft ASL.

The issues to be addressed with a FWC are already mentioned. The Artic Pack will take care of rising heated air but it's the cold seeping in underneath that will require attention. Sounds like you already understand all of that.

Not sure who you've picked to build your camper but if they've been in business awhile, I'd assume they have a range of options you can choose from. I haven't crossed the insulation bridge yet with FWC on our design but without a doubt I know when I do they'll have other options available aside from what they put in their production models.

I know Hallmark RV has done a lot of research on cold weather camping. They're offering a Mylar-lined soft wall (soft = insulation) as an option now and proudly claim their line up can maintain 70*F inside with an outside temperature of -20*F. Not sure for how long or how much gas that requires but it's pretty impressive and given they're manufactured in Colorado, I think they have lots of opportunities to get cold weather camping right.

Definitely excited to see your design, BTW. Any date planned to share that here :D ?
 

cwsqbm

Explorer
Would it help to fill the tubing on a Four Wheel Camper with expandable foam?
Not really. Aluminum, like all metals, is a conductor. Therefore, the part of the tube against the inside wall will be the same temperature as the part of the tube against the outside wall, pretty much regardless of what's inside the tube.
 

1stDeuce

Explorer
I used my old '94 Hallmark a few night this winter for snowmobiling. One trip in particular was decently cold, at about 0F. I wasn't concerned with keeping it at 70F inside, but the furnace was on more than off to hold the low 60's. Sitting at the table, on the bed side, I could feel that there was a cold air waterfall coming down off the bed! We dropped the inside temp to 50 for the night and slept quite comfortably. At 50, the heater only ran every 20 minutes for perhaps 5 or 10 minutes. As soon as the sun came out, it took much less furnace time to keep it warm inside.

Only trouble I had was that the sink quit draining because the water froze before it could drain. I opened the cabinet door to let some heat under the sink and it thawed back out. I don't use the fresh water system at all in the winter, and I don't have a shower or toilet to worry about.

I'll add also that the "Ducted" furnace is really a gimmick in my camper. The ducts are about a foot from the furnace intake, all right at the back door. If i was more motivated, I'd run them to the front of the camper to get better heat at the bed, but then they'd take up cabinet space, and probably wouldn't put out as much heat...

Chris
 

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