long gun registration papers

[HumphreyBear]

An Australian Institute of Criminology report:

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/c...w%20paper.aspx

Shorthand version - a 47% decrease in gun deaths over the ten years the more severe controls were implemented, the majority of deaths being suicide. Firearm related homicides dropped 43% (from 84 deaths annually to 47). This is for a country of 20,000,000 people.

[toymaster]

You may have misunderstood me, I am sorry. I meant crimes being commited against your fellow man; not a reduction in a person's right to make yet another choice. The only thing the study proved was a reduced access for the law-abiding citizen to firearms.

Anyway, copied from the report... "While the numbers are quite small, the year 2000 recorded the highest number of firearms accidents (45 accidents) during the 11 year period." The law was passed in 1996 by the way.

And the report free admits "While suchpersons can turn to alternative means (substitution), research indicates that firearms are one of the more lethal methods, and hence firearm use has a greater incidence in actual suicides than in attempted suicides (De Leo et al. 2001)."

Would you care to examine the amount of personal assaults and property theft since the removal of many guns from law-abiding citizens?

[HumphreyBear]

No, please, feel free to cherry pick isolated statistics to justify your perspective - but notice it said gun accidents were at their peak in 2000. Accidents. Your argument is meandering between 'crime' to accidents to suicide without coherence - any stat will do. So let's focus on firearm related homicide which is what I was talking about. Rebut those figures, please... Tell me how the reduction in homicides is something worthy of being upset about. In terms of "the amount of personal assaults and property theft since the removal of many guns from law-abiding citizens" have a look at this Attorney General's report. Short cut to the end:

Our analysis also shows that the number of recorded firearm offences has been declining in NSW in recent years. Over the 11-year period examined, the number of people killed with a firearm decreased by 45 per cent and the number of robberies with a firearm decreased by 33 per cent.

Note this is NSW related, but I'm done with the discussion and am not looking up any more stats. Feel free to believe whatever you choose but I stand by all my points and my original comments to Tacodoc.

Good night.

[toymaster]

Note this is NSW related, but I'm done with the discussion and am not looking up any more stats. Feel free to believe whatever you choose but I stand by all my points and my original comments to Tacodoc.

Good night.

OK I'll do it for you then since you have threw up a wall of “Narrow mindedness”.

Cite: http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/B/4/...%7Dfacts10.pdf

Table 1 Victims of selected violent crimes, 1996–2009 (n)

Homicide Assault Sexual assault Robbery Kidnapping/abduction
1996 354 114,156 14,542 16,372 478
1997 364 124,500 14,353 21,305 564
1998 334 130,903 14,689 23,801 707
1999 385 134,271 14,699 22,606 766
2000 362 138,708 16,406 23,336 695
2001 347 152,283 17,577 26,591 767
2002 366 160,118 18,718 20,989 706
2003 341 157,280 18,025 19,709 696
2004 302 156,849 19,171 16,513 768
2005 301 166,507 18,695 17,176 729
2006 321 172,441 19,555 17,375 726
2007 283 176,077 19,954 17,996 733
2008 293 170,720 19,992 16,513 788
2009 293 175,277 18,807 15,238 564
Note: Number of victims presented here represents revised estimates on numbers published in earlier editions of Australian statistics


And I quote “Although susceptible to fluctuations, the number of kidnapping/abductions decreased
by 28 percent between 2008 and 2009, while there has been an overall increase of
18 percent in the number of kidnappings since 1996.”

• Assaults have been increasing at an average rate of four percent per year since
1996. There were 175,227 cases of assault in 2009, a 2.6 percent rise from 2008.

• With 293 recorded cases in 2009, homicide figures continue to be the lowest of all
violent crime categories in Australia.

• Sexual assaults have fluctuated since 2003, with a six percent decrease in the number
of recorded sexual assaults between 2008 and 2009. Overall, the number of sexual
assaults has increased by one-third since 1996.

• Robberies have continued to decrease since 2007, reducing to 15,238 in 2009
(an 8% decrease since 2008).

• In 2009, assault was the only crime to experience an increase, rising by
three percent from 2008.

• Although sexual assault has decreased since 2008, in the past 10 years it has
increased by 28 percent.


My point is crime as increased. The reason? Because a criminal has less to fear. A firearm is the great equalizer. In short, a person safety should not be based on their stature. This alone is justification for a person to own any firearm they would like, that is legally. Criminals do not care what the law says; they just care about their safety when committing a crime.

The reason we have the right to bear arms in the USA is for different reason but alas that is a different topic. You have a nice country and I'd like to visit one day in spite of the flawed logic the nation's laws current hold.

Good night.

[mep1811]

The results of the Australian gun buy back/ confiscation program was an dramatic increase in crime.

•Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;

•Assaults are up 8.6 percent;

•Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent;
•In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed
300 percent;

•In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been
dropping steadily;

•There has been a reported “dramatic increase” in home burglaries
and assaults on the elderly.

At the time of the ban, which followed an April 29, 1996
shooting at a Port Arthur tourist spot by lone gunman Martin Bryant, the
continent had an annual murder-by-firearm rate of about 1.8 per 100,000
persons, “a safe society by any standards,” said Tidswell. But such low
rates of crime and rare shootings did not deter then-Prime Minister John
Howard from calling for and supporting the weapons ban.

Since the ban has been in effect, membership in the Australian
Sporting Shooters Association has climbed to about 112,000 — a 200
percent increase.

[frumpy]

Regardless if guns are registered or controlled, it's not going to stop people from committing the crimes they commit. They will find other ways including unregistered illegal guns. I can't speak for any other country than my own, but the only people all these laws are effecting are they law abiding citizens that jump through the hoops to own them.

Right now I can own a pistol or AR (restricted gun and rifle), but I cannot take it out of my home unless I have permission from the chief of firearms for that province. Even then, I cannot go shoot it on crown or private land, only a certified range. What difference is it to anyone if I can shoot a non restricted gun on private or crown land but not a restricted? I don't think that law has prevented any crimes from being committed.

oh, and Cody1771 how is it any different shooting on private land than at a range if that person has done all the legal requirements to own a pistol? I think you have a false sense of security. I regularly shoot non-restricted firearms on crown and private land. I have had others show up and the odd time there have been issues I speak up. If I go down range I make sure the other person knows not to handle the firearm (and if I'm shooting with someone else they stay at the firing line if there are concerns). I have never felt my safety has been in question by not being at an official range, and regardless of what you are shooting (pistol or rifle) the same basic rules apply. How is it right that someone I know who owns 400+ acres can't take a pistol, even a 22 pistol out into his land and shoot it into a safe backstop yet they can take a 50cal "sniper" rifle out to public land and blast away.

[Cody1771]

oh, and Cody1771 how is it any different shooting on private land than at a range if that person has done all the legal requirements to own a pistol? I think you have a false sense of security. I regularly shoot non-restricted firearms on crown and private land. I have had others show up and the odd time there have been issues I speak up. If I go down range I make sure the other person knows not to handle the firearm (and if I'm shooting with someone else they stay at the firing line if there are concerns). I have never felt my safety has been in question by not being at an official range, and regardless of what you are shooting (pistol or rifle) the same basic rules apply. How is it right that someone I know who owns 400+ acres can't take a pistol, even a 22 pistol out into his land and shoot it into a safe backstop yet they can take a 50cal "sniper" rifle out to public land and blast away.

i never disagreed with this, my comment about the range was PURELY restricted firearms related, i carry a shotgun with me whenever i go camping. i have never felt the need to take any pistol, even my 22 browning gold metalist outside of the range. this will be my last post in this thread as it is getting to heated for my taste as gun control is a lame thing to debate as everyone has there own opinion that is much to hard to change. have a nice day all

[HumphreyBear]

I'm bowing out as well, having commented on what I wished to and have no desire to get into an intractable discussion. I will not change my mind to allow for the possibility of unfettered access to firearms in this country (Australia), you seem to have a perspective which I don't understand seeing as how you don't live here, but that will not likely change either. You also seem hell bent on trying to twist my point of view into something that it isn't. I enjoy shooting, have no problems with firearms and am not trying to take your guns away. I'm not commenting on the US, its laws or its people, just saying please don't misconstrue my country to defend your philosophy. For some posters here your logic is specious and reaches for conclusions that the facts don't support. You refuse to address my point - I'm talking gun crime, you're making unverifiable assertions that segue across a range of possible issues and I don't trust some of your figures which were plagiarised word for word from a US anti gun control column (MEP1811). As a citizen of this country, on the ground in this country and in touch with the people of this country I can tell you that you assertion that crime is escalating due to gun control is erroneous and considered in Australia, by the few who care, to be a fallacy designed to support gun fanciers and lobbyist in the US in pushing US policy - nothing to do with quality of life or rights in this country. Your stats don't back you up, unless you squint and look at them upside down and through a smokey mirror because they don't offer a qualification of how an increase or decrease occurred. The firearms offences stats I stated are directly, irrevocably and incontrovertibly linked to the issue.

My final word is that I meant no offence to TACODOC who I see is a valued and respected member here, and I can tell this is a heartfelt issue for him. I am just asking you all to restrict your arguments to your own country in the same way I have the respect to not address yours.

Humphrey Out.

[simonzayne]

I'm going to stay out of this discussion except to say, "congrats on the fire Frumpy."

[nwoods]

...I do not know almost any Australians who are opposed to firearms restrictions, who thinks we should have US-styled unfettered access to firearms.

Boy I wish that was true! Our Constitution says our right to own and bear arms should not be impinged in anyway, but what State and Federal legislators have actually wreaked on their citizens is another matter altogether!