What i would build if $$ was no object

[john101477]

Better is in the eye of the beholder...

High-end equipment is usually wrapped in so much social and monetary BS that it rarely lives up to its reputation in the real world.

Also, spending 97% of your budget to ensure that you have the last 1% of capability is a fool hardy way to spend money. A lot of times trying to live with the machine that was bought/built for that last 1% is a real PITA. That's why people get out of hard core rock crawling for example. It's just not worth it.

2¢

I agree with the unimog comment as a mog would do me little good in the places I like to go
I am going to have to call BS on the gear part though. On a large scale if you spend the money which is not always the top dollar stuff but often the top dollar stuff is tried and true work horse gear. For instance, a Warn winch vs Smitty, BJ spacers vs a real lift (toyota), etc. On a large scale if the average person is willing t save for the higher dollar stuff that means it is going to be better. think of Marlin Vs trail gear? some of the same type of gear but obviously one is made better. Also High End does not always equal the highest dollar.

As for the hard core rock crawling, on a large scale it is an enthusiast sport. Unless you are making $$$ out of it, you are basically a hobbiest that enjoys it, has the money for it, and does not mind destroying a vehicle. Many just get older and realize that hey, I do not really need to go TRY to break my truck every weekend since I am not sponsored and have to pay for my own repairs hahaha.
Others like myself, find that they enjoy the outdoors more than they do the crawling part of it so we tailor our world to our desires, hence why some of us end up here on EP instead of on Marlins site, or MUD, Pirate, or any number of other sites dedicated to the crawler world

[reece146]

You have interpretted my statement in a manner that I did not intend. Blame it on a half written out idea.

Value for money (i.e. practicality) is how I manage acquistions. Why buy $50/peice "overland certified" (WhateverTF that means, for example) cutlery when some decent quailty normal cutlery will do?

My Jeep has been built with some of the best of breed equipment available at the time (long arms, manual lockers, armour, etc.) and it cost a pretty penny but the value for money was apparent so there were no issues buying that equipment.

My original statement was more with respect to buying the best truck, car, floating villa (wtf?), whatever, because someone somewhere with publishing power said it was the best, and/or it is expensive and/or there is some kind of fanboi presence saying it is "best" when there is no such thing. Every one needs to evaluate their individual needs and if at the same time they did the most with the least equipment required that would have fantastic effects on their pocket book and the environment through which this person and equipment would travel.

Don't take me wrong, some people have a legitimate need for a Unimog type vehicle. Where I lose the plot is when a want has been incorrectly rationalized into a need. I'm also not an ascetic, wants can be rationalized.

Expensive things can be crappily made. Cheap things can be well made. Using industrial equipment for extended duration car camping is like going fly fishing with a sawed off thermonuclear device. There has to be a happy medium but I have little patience for over the top BS.

But far be it from me to judge and I take issue when the original poster is judged because he didn't pick the "best" available.

2¢

[Metcalf]

For me its about trying to strike a balance between off-road capability, size, and reliability.

I feel that once you start changing a vehicle away from stock, even if the parts are top quality, it's VERY hard to get the same long term durability and reliability of the same stock part. The testing behind factory parts is WAY more than most people think. They are generally all computer designed, run through FEA, run through a FEA cycle failure test, and then prototype'd, and tested. Once you change the parameters of that testing....say bigger tires or more weight....everything starts to change.

However, I still VERY rarely see aftermarket parts that retain the long term durability or 'life' as the stock part. This is getting better these days, but I think its still an issue.

In my little dream world I would take the best of the OEM parts and combine them to make a vehicle.

[Rot Box]

Hummer H1 Pickup with an Commonrail 4.5 Cummins and 6 Speed Allison

Pretty much! Top it off with a FCW and hit the trail Although I'd prefer a handshaker NV4500.

[98dango]

For me its about trying to strike a balance between off-road capability, size, and reliability.

I feel that once you start changing a vehicle away from stock, even if the parts are top quality, it's VERY hard to get the same long term durability and reliability of the same stock part. The testing behind factory parts is WAY more than most people think. They are generally all computer designed, run through FEA, run through a FEA cycle failure test, and then prototype'd, and tested. Once you change the parameters of that testing....say bigger tires or more weight....everything starts to change.

.

However, I still VERY rarely see aftermarket parts that retain the long term durability or 'life' as the stock part. This is getting better these days, but I think its still an issue.

In my little dream world I would take the best of the OEM parts and combine them to make a vehicle.

Very good words sir. Also why I am using a stock long box 1ton frame insted of cutting down a crew cab frame

[john101477]

You have interpretted my statement in a manner that I did not intend. Blame it on a half written out idea.

Value for money (i.e. practicality) is how I manage acquistions. Why buy $50/peice "overland certified" (WhateverTF that means, for example) cutlery when some decent quailty normal cutlery will do?

My Jeep has been built with some of the best of breed equipment available at the time (long arms, manual lockers, armour, etc.) and it cost a pretty penny but the value for money was apparent so there were no issues buying that equipment.

My original statement was more with respect to buying the best truck, car, floating villa (wtf?), whatever, because someone somewhere with publishing power said it was the best, and/or it is expensive and/or there is some kind of fanboi presence saying it is "best" when there is no such thing. Every one needs to evaluate their individual needs and if at the same time they did the most with the least equipment required that would have fantastic effects on their pocket book and the environment through which this person and equipment would travel.

Don't take me wrong, some people have a legitimate need for a Unimog type vehicle. Where I lose the plot is when a want has been incorrectly rationalized into a need. I'm also not an ascetic, wants can be rationalized.

Expensive things can be crappily made. Cheap things can be well made. Using industrial equipment for extended duration car camping is like going fly fishing with a sawed off thermonuclear device. There has to be a happy medium but I have little patience for over the top BS.

But far be it from me to judge and I take issue when the original poster is judged because he didn't pick the "best" available.

2¢

I have seen plenty of expensive things made crappy lol but I have seen more backward engineered crap than expensive crap...

What I was getting at with my first post in this thread was simply, if money was not an issue many of the, I would build a cool envoy or blazer or what ever would not even be a thought in their minds. Plain and simple money changes the way people look at their own gear. I have seen it plenty here and in real life. Also your idea of an expedition might change quite a bit. A week long car camping trip might not meet the idea of getting out anymore. Having the bare needs to complete a job has never had anything to do with the human desire to go bigger and/or better. sometimes that desire leads to some amazing equipment being created and for that I glad.

Metcalf, the idea that oem parts are always better is not very realistic. Almost every car company has removed quality control divisions now. So just like the ford 6.0, toyota prius, chevy impala, they relay on the consumer to tell them what is wrong now, and then if enouh people yell or die then they will fix it... many aftermarket components are engineered off of the OEM equipment to be better than factory. Chevy has actually been one of the worst for this since about 2008. My father inlaw has had 3, count that 3, brand new trucks fall into the lemon law catigory.

[Metcalf]

I'm not saying total lemons don't happen!

The other thing I would like to touch on is using a vehicle within its intended purpose. Far to often you tend to get a hyped up over-rated vehicle than a watered down overbuild vehicle. The classic example I use is the 80 series landcruiser. Take vehicle that is designed for years upon years of service in a 3rd world country, fancy it up a bit, and then sell it to the US people. Yes please, can I have another! I wish more companies would follow that model. They don't have to add the fluff though, REALLY. I like my hand crank windows, manual door locks, etc.

[reece146]

What I was getting at with my first post in this thread was simply, if money was not an issue many of the, I would build a cool envoy or blazer or what ever would not even be a thought in their minds. Plain and simple money changes the way people look at their own gear. I have seen it plenty here and in real life. Also your idea of an expedition might change quite a bit. A week long car camping trip might not meet the idea of getting out anymore. Having the bare needs to complete a job has never had anything to do with the human desire to go bigger and/or better. sometimes that desire leads to some amazing equipment being created and for that I glad.

Gold fish syndrome. The gold fish gows to the size the bowl will allow.

Having the opportunity to walk away from the precipice gives a different perspective on such things.

[lstzephyr]

I agree with the idea that oem parts are generally going to be more reliable than most aftermarket parts. That said every vehicle will have limitations that need to be addressed and the KDP of a cummins is a great example. I doubt they could have known that 20 years later a dowel would become an issue.

I know with my bike I expect to spend 3-6 months working out any issues that come up from aftermarket parts I install. Sometimes it is as simple as adding locktight and a little adjustment. Sometimes the issue can be as major as loosing a chunk of a wheel because of one part becoming to stiff for the part next to it. I think research is a big important part of that choice. That research and time spent debugging a vehicle is a prime reason why I am hesitant to replace my vehicles at any given time. I would rather completely rebuild my vehicles a couple times than I would go through figuring out how to make the different combinations of parts work on another platform.

[john101477]

I'm not saying total lemons don't happen!

The other thing I would like to touch on is using a vehicle within its intended purpose. Far to often you tend to get a hyped up over-rated vehicle than a watered down overbuild vehicle. The classic example I use is the 80 series landcruiser. Take vehicle that is designed for years upon years of service in a 3rd world country, fancy it up a bit, and then sell it to the US people. Yes please, can I have another! I wish more companies would follow that model. They don't have to add the fluff though, REALLY. I like my hand crank windows, manual door locks, etc.

And that was great when vehicles like the 80 were still being built but now most rigs that used to be built tough are designed like highway transportation instead of the original nature of the beast. The Jeep is one such example, although jeep has managed to stay as close to their roots as any other manufacturer IMO.

Gold fish syndrome. The gold fish gows to the size the bowl will allow.

Having the opportunity to walk away from the precipice gives a different perspective on such things.

pretty much lol. Thats well said actually. I have been on both sides of the coin and back again unfortunately so I can appriciate what I miss now. It makes the dreaming even further than some I suppose.