Earthroamer poor customer service

howell_jd

Adventurer
He [******** Smith] happens to be a very prominent and well respected person in Australia and his adventures (the man is a true adventurer) get plenty of publicity here.

I echo the sentiment of the duly earned respect of ******** and Pip Smith! The opportunity to correspond with such a well-travelled and down-to-earth couple was really a treasure. It bears saying that their gracious attitude and generosity are truly genuine. Sharing their experiences through their travellog was truly wonderful reading especially during my combat deployment. I still find it exciting to get any tidbits of their current support to charity and things Australian...really wonderful for them to invest in the things that bring individualilty and are uniquely home for them. Quite admirable! I am sure there may have been cross words on occasion uttered by ******** in regards to their situation but ultimately the story shared is a positive one rather than a critical one...or at least that was how I read it. Sorry to digress from the original intent of the thread but if any of the Aussies have a link to any contemporary explorations of the Smiths I sure would appreciate a note if possible. Thanks!

Best Regards!

Jonathan
 

Photomike

White Turtle Adventures & Photography
Other than one post I think that this thread had very little to do with the quality of the units in question. Have people had issues? Sure they have. But I think that can be expected of just about anything that is pushed to the limits - how many RV's could stand up to the travel and being lived in for a long time without any issues? How many vehicles could be driven long distances without a breakdown? I know myself that some trips do a lot more damage to a vehicle than other trips and this has to be expected. As for the chassis that the unit is built on, that is more of a chassis manufacturer issue than with the camper unit.

NOBODY has said that they had poor aftermarket support or poor warranty support, so this has to say something about the manufacturer standing behind the product and for this I commend them.

I will go back to the original post and restate that if a company cannot respond to inquiries then there is a problem and that has to be addressed if the company wants to stay around. This could have been (or is) VERY valuable market research (and it is free) in that if one person is saying that there is a problem in getting a response from the company then maybe more are having the same issues. I know that in my own business over the years I have heard from clients about issues and when I have investigated I found that some of the complaints were real issues - a quick change and things were looked after and everyone was happy. If a company does not take each issue seriously then they are either going to have a lot more problems or worse yet they may not be around to look after the issues if they are ignored. Years ago I had the chance to talk to a top executive at Kodak, one of our companies complaints was that they were not responsive to our wants and needs. Kodak's response was tough, go someplace else, we are Kodak and really do not care. So we did. We took millions of dollars in purchases per year to another company. Well look at where Kodak is today.
 

turbopilot

Observer
I will go back to the original post and restate that if a company cannot respond to inquiries then there is a problem and that has to be addressed if the company wants to stay around.

You are assuming "facts not in evidence" in this thread. The lead poster to this thread said three emails were not responded to by EarthRoamer. There has been no evidence in this thread that EarthRoamer ever got the emails. Maybe they did, but based on the evidence in this thread we don't know. Based on this we have a long thread going about "poor customer service". Pretty foolish.

I use Gmail which I love. But very often it quietly puts very good emails into the SPAM folder without telling me. Stuff happens with emails.

Maybe EarthRoamer did get the emails. But a whole bunch of bytes are currently being wasted over a issue where all the facts are not known.
 

HumphreyBear

Adventurer
Pretty foolish.

So much for the temperate rhetoric and politeness with which (most) responses have been composed.

At the risk of popping whatever bubble is going in your though process that line of reasoning (spam folders etc.) has already been discussed quite effectively and dismissed as a reason. Secondly, I have corresponded with Liz through this forum and believe that she is an honest, unbiased and direct person, I have no doubt in her truthfulness, and neither should you. Thirdly, also undermining your argument is the fact that she finally received an email response from them, so obviously the messages were going somewhere accessible.

Let it rest mate.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
At the risk of popping whatever bubble is going in your though process that line of reasoning (spam folders etc.) has already been discussed quite effectively and dismissed as a reason.

I think the point that turbopilot is making, is the same point that I tried to make (and I'll admit to not making it clear enough)...

The point is this: Email is often unreliable. Depending upon an unreliable communications method to make a decision on whether or not to spend one-quarter to one-half million USD on a truck is probably not the wisest course. Telephone would be better. I know that if *I* was going to spend that sort of money, I'd bloody well call the company.



Thirdly, also undermining your argument is the fact that she finally received an email response from them, so obviously the messages were going somewhere accessible.

Of course. But, as I already stated, it was likely ending up buried in an email box overflowing with: Spam and tire kickers *certainly* along with who knows what else.

This, as you must know from being "in the business", is NO DOUBT compounded to horrible extremes by Earthroamer's web designer making the common mistake of putting the email address on the site, AND making it a "mailto:" link. Tsk tsk. Very bad thing to do. Guaranteed to end up with a mailbox buried in spam.

Better would be a "Contact Us" page with a form that keeps the recipient email address secret from web crawling spambots. But...well...web designers...you know...

uf22c151.gif




(And...I was certainly not acting as an "apologist" - I was just stating observations from over a decade spent, among other things, cleaning up overstuffed email servers.)
 

Liz5264

New member
I am surprised my post has caused such a reaction, so I thought I would respond and put forward my point of view.

Before I continue though, I will mention again that ER did contact me, no doubt as a response to my post. They answered the questions in my email and explained what they have done to try and rectify some of the issues experienced by ******** Smith (although not all).

Firstly to help put my views in perspective, we are reasonably experienced travelers, with our last trip a 6 month independent overland trip through Southern and East Africa. Most times, within reason, we purposely chose the road less travelled and had some wonderful experiences doing so. We are familiar with the type of terrain and environments we will encounter and that we need a tough and reliable vehicle to allow us to explore this wonderful world for hopefully many years to come. We are well aware that we WILL have vehicle issues (and that is just part of the whole experience), but we are just as aware that there will not be a local dealer down the road we can call to give us a hand in a lot of places. This last trip was our trial run to confirm that permanent overland travel is where we want to be and it is. Our mission now is to find the vehicle that is going to meet our needs and so we began our investigations. We have looked at manufacturers all over the world as it doesn't really matter where the vehicle comes from if it is the right one and there are not insurmountable bureaucratic obstacles. (Obviously buying here in Aus is an advantage, but it is not the most important criteria). We have made contact with several companies that appear to fit the bill and are narrowing down our list based on further information. This brings me to my attempt to contact Earthroamer.

I still standby my original post. It is extremely poor customer service to not receive a reply to 3 emails sent over a 2 month period, especially on a product with such a high dollar amount. If a manufacturer offers the ability to contact them via email then they should ensure they have someone handling this and if they are getting too many junk emails to deal with it then implement a contact form. The intention of this post was to highlight this difficulty to others who may be thinking of purchasing an ER.

I am glad to see that there are others who can see my point of view and have expanded further on it, all of which I agree with. No matter how big or small a company is or how many “tire kickers” they have to deal with, nothing is more damaging to a company, especially in this age of the internet and social media, than poor customer service and the brand damage it can do. Sure I could make dozens of international phone calls, and deal with numerous time zones, to make initial contact with possible manufacturers, OR I could use the contact details provided on THEIR websites and get the information I need to eventually come up with my shortlist. From there I can choose my method for further communications.

Whilst I raised my concerns about the issues experienced by ******** Smith and this combined with the lack of response was not winning ER any favours, I would not be contacting them if I wasn't prepared to understand what improvements had been made and make my own assessment of the vehicle's suitability for our travels. I certainly do not hate ER, I merely used ********'s blog as one of many I have read, to assist with knowledge and research in both truck requirements and general overland travel. All I will say though is that a vehicle for permanent overland travel throughout the world with significant periods in the third world and the infrastructure that comes along with this, has quite different requirements to one that is used for a few weeks or even months each year, goes offroad in national parks and is really never far from a dealer, mechanic or tow truck. (I know this will generate some debate, but I can assure you being majorly stuck in the remoteness of Africa with nothing but a satellite phone and probably some helpful locals is a very different scenario to being stuck in a NP even hundreds of kilometres from a mechanic and would be a much easier option).

For whoever asked about ******** Smith, he has now purchased an Australian built motorhome for his adventures and called it “Aussie Roamer”.

From my point of view I have finally received the information I have asked for and my post has fulfilled its requirements. If nothing else I hope ER take some learnings from this discussion. I think someone mentioned that it is free customer feedback – let's hope they use it.

Lastly though, I would like to say that this is a fantastic forum full of heaps of useful information and people with firsthand experience. Planning something like this is quite different to planning a shorter trip, even a 6 month one, as there are so many things to consider and wrap up, one of which is the truck. Thank you for all the useful advice that is shared here.

Liz

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JRhetts

Adventurer
I am surprised my post has caused such a reaction, so I thought I would respond and put forward my point of view....
Lastly though, I would like to say that this is a fantastic forum full of heaps of useful information and people with firsthand experience. Planning something like this is quite different to planning a shorter trip, even a 6 month one, as there are so many things to consider and wrap up, one of which is the truck. Thank you for all the useful advice that is shared here.
Liz
-

Liz

That was a graceful and thoughtful reply; thank you!
 

AFSOC

Explorer
I am surprised my post has caused such a reaction-

Don't be surprised, it happens every time the word "Earthroamer" appears in the thread title on this forum. It is very predictable, as are the responses. It seems even casual mention of Earthroamer is an attack on them and their product and that anyone who doesn't own an ER is envious. It's the way these threads have been for years and appears it's the way they'll continue to be.
 

howell_jd

Adventurer
Occasionally this has gotten out of hand here (and before) but many of the posts on both sides have been inflammatory - not just on the part of ER owners or ER supporters.

My mama taught me that asking for assistance politely often generates more support than ventilating frustrations although both techniques may achieve the same result. I also agree with JRhetts' and mhiscox's characterization of Liz5264's post above as "graceful and thoughtful."

There are myriad examples on ExPo of the brand-name loyalty that generate taking sides and subsequent accusations and even name calling. It happens, it isn't necessary, but it happens - and we move on because we can...and in the big scheme of things it really doesn't matter much.

If any of my postings have been seen as derrogatory, or diminishing any personal point-of-view, I offer my apology and covenant to "do better" in the future. I haven't in the past, nor will I likely in the future, hide my own enthusiasm for my ER...and I believe I have been quite forthright with the challenges that I have encountered during my ER travels...most of which are encountered universally by those who seek off-road adventure (yes, I have been stuck in the mud, the sand, on a mesa, on a range, etc.)...and I've fixed some of those problems with duct tape, bailing wire, bubble gum (yes, really), solder and spit too - sometimes in the middle of the trail as well as in the middle of the road (amidst traffic and all). Let me get to the point - in those instances, my experience has been that I always had the support of the ER family and ER team...a different support than e-mail information to be sure (and perhaps off-target from the OP topic - again, my apologies for not keeping my initial response as precise as it could possibly have been addressed) but always timely for me.

I like ER and I like ExPo. I don't think the two communities are mutually exclusive - and I suspect that the many ER owners I know agree since so many of us continue to visit, participate, and share our experiences on ExPo. If I am taking liberties with other ER owners' opinions please excuse my presumption.

Unfortunately, I won't get to enjoy my ER for the next 12-months as I head back to sandy regions but I look forward to the vicarious thrill of exploration and adventure through ExPo, Overland Journal, EarthRoamer.org, ADVRider.com, and the many other sites where so many personal friends "electronically" gather. Hope to "see" all of you on the boards! Thanks for your patience, and now back to more regular postings.

Jonathan
 
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dwh

Tail-End Charlie
If a manufacturer offers the ability to contact them via email then they should ensure they have someone handling this and if they are getting too many junk emails to deal with it then implement a contact form.

I completely agree and have argued this position for decades.



[The following is not specifically directed at you Liz. It's mostly for those who aren't aware, and perhaps, if someone at Earthroamer is lurking about, they'll take it to heart.]


We, "in the business", have known about the problem of email address harvesting for decades. At this point, there are hundreds of thousands of bots up and running and crawling the web at any given moment; as well as many other methods of harvesting - such as grabbing all the addresses from an individual's contact list; and spammers sell their databases of collected addresses to each other on an open market. Once an email address gets into a spammer database, it will NEVER be removed.

The worst case I personally have seen, was an email server with over one-hundred email boxes each receiving over twenty-thousand spams per day. They had published their entire company contact list on their web site, including everyone's email address as a clickable mailto: link. Someone in their sales department had thought it a grand idea. The IT department objected, but was overruled. At the point where I was called in, the only thing to do, was to implement a very strict (spam nazi) server-side anti-spam filter
[*] and try to keep a smile on my face as everyone in the company started (loudly) complaining. (As a hired gun consultant called in to deal with the mess, I didn't care how loudly they complained. The CEO was authorizing my checks, and as long as he was happy, the rest would simply have to get over it.)

These days, NOT implementing a contact form is regarded as a novice mistake for a web designer to make. Anyone who puts a mailto: link on their web site is just begging to be spammed into the ninth circle of hell. Unfortunately, there are a lot of novices out there representing themselves as experts. (Which has always been a rampant problem at all levels in the IT field.) Many companies have shot themselves in the foot by trusting an "expert" who was nothing of the sort.

But the reason such things happen is that people running companies are generally not, themselves, IT experts. They simply must put their trust in someone to get the job done. And how are they to know who to trust? They don't. All they can do is give it a shot and hope they don't lose a toe as a result.

Again, I'm not acting as an apologist; this is simply the nature of the beast.


The fix to Earthroamer's current problem is easy. (And unfortunately, even today, often needed.)

Create a new email account to receive contact emails.
Implement a Contact Us page with code to keep the recipient email address hidden.
Delete the thoroughly compromised "info@" email address, which is beyond any doubt in thousands of spammer databases and flagged as a "good" email address. ("Good" meaning; confirmed that actual human eyes will see the spam.)



[*] In case any email admins are watching: My preferred tool for this is ASSP. It's an SMTP proxy that watches incoming SMTP connections, analyzes the incoming message as it passes through, does a Beyesian comparison against "known spam" and "known not-spam" databases, and if it decides the incoming message looks more like spam than not-spam, cuts off the SMTP connection with a reject message. Thus the incoming spam never does finish getting delivered to the server and never ends up in any mailboxes on the recipient server.

One of the few truly excellent free, open source softwares in the world.

http://www.magicvillage.de/~Fritz_Borgstedt/assp/0003D91C-8000001C/
 
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cellularsteve2

Adventurer
Liz,
Being from Australia, I wonder if you could comment on your thoughts of the EarthCruiser or ATW. Either in this post or a new post. I am curious why you are considering a US company. Is it the Ford platform you prefer? I am excited to see that EarthCruiser is now in the US giving us more choices.
Thanks.
steve
 

Liz5264

New member
Hi Steve

We are in contact with Earthcruiser and ATW, amongst others, as part of our current investigations. Both of which remain on our shortlist. As for ER, Ford and a US company, it is more that because this will be our permanent home for hopefully 20+ years, we want to investigate as many options as possible. That way we should end up with the most appropriate vehicle for us. Given our plans, it does not really matter where in the world we start, so if the best vehicle is in the US or Europe and we can sort out the admin details, then we will start there. Obviously purchasing from Aus would be more convenient for the initial setup, but is not the most important criteria.

I just wish we could get a LHD vehicle built here!

Liz
 

Kardec

New member
As Earthroamer's first customer it's probably appropriate for me to speak up. I have never had any reason to fault their customer service. Perhaps I am forgiving, don't need to be coddled, or don't need to be treated like a VIP but I'm pretty sure that I have never waited for a return phone call except when someone was actually thinking or researching whatever I asked about. Fine experiences, though no one was chasing me around to pour me a glass of wine or wipe my feet. I'm also certain that your typical Aussie customer has no unreasonable expectations. I lived down under for a year and I don't believe I ever ran into an Australian who took him or herself too seriously.

I love the ER and mine is now far from new my warranty is long over and I have no financial interest in the company. No vehicle that you actually live in is going to hold up without constant maintenance and the more luxurious the unit is the more it is going to degrade with the wear and tear of living and travel. If anyone is looking for a machine that will degrade the least over time then the choice would probably the most spartan truck and camper that can be tolerated. The less veneer, upholstery and hardware the better.

Having watched the company since before it was even housed under a big piece of blue plastic in a boat yard near San Diego I have to say that the current vehicle is a testament to their customer relationships. They are very responsive and have been exceedingly open to learning from and growing with their customers. Great vehicle. I love it. However, if I lived in Australia I would examine other, local, options. There are many fantastic machines made in Oz and, if I remember correctly, one reason the ******** Smith truck did not go home with him was the unwillingness of the Australian Govt. to accept various aspects of the Ford truck ... like left hand drive.

I would unconditionally recommend the vehicle and the company personnel. I do business all the time where email does not go through, nothing replaces voice to voice or face to face!
 

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