Help me Decide on a Furnace, for the Adrenalin - Propex, Espar, Webasto, Other?

[jonharis]

I recently acquired a new Adrenalin Rush Camper and am hoping to have a heater installed by this fall. As you can see in the linked photos the interior volume of the main tent (not worried about heating the annexes) is huge. I currently have a 20lb propane for cooking but am willing to consider diesel. I camp regularly at over 10,000' (3,000m) and would like to extend my season into the 0 degree nights we have in the winter. I camp with my two small children so their comfort is key to a happy outing. I'd like to get input from owners on likes and dislikes and especially high altitude operation.

These are the models I am currently looking into.

Propex HS2800 (Propane)
Webasto 3900 (Diesel)
Espar Airtronic 4 (Diesel)

Thanks for your wisdom.......

 

[kevint]

No wisdom but some thoughts. First, you are looking at some pretty high end stuff so this may not interest you but there is also a Zodi tent heater. No longer produced but can be found used.

Also, we have been wondering if a simple electric blanket might be workable (probably not until your girls are a little older). They apparently draw from 50 - 100 watts and so a queen and a couple of twins might work for us. I've got about 1350 usable watt hours in my batteries before I am 50% depleted so I'd need to run my little honda generator during the day to recharge.

For now, I am using a small catalytic heater. We used it in our Kelty Mantra 7 and it was enough to take the edge off down into the 20s. Zero degrees would have been another issue.

I'll be interested in your feedback.

 

[jonharis]

Thanks Kevin-
I like the Zodi and may have to look a little deeper into it. It looks like one could semi permanently mount one similarly to the other heaters. My primary goal is to heat the air so we can be comfortable changing the girls, reading, making breakfast etc. so I think a heat blanket is out. I am thinking of going the Mr. Heater route in the interim. We would only use it in the morning when waking up or at night while getting ready for bed so I'm not too concerned about the CO safety at this point. Ultimately I want something that it truly flip of the switch though and that is ready to go as soon as camp is set up. That is the appeal of the other solutions as we spend a lot of nights out.

No wisdom but some thoughts. First, you are looking at some pretty high end stuff so this may not interest you but there is also a Zodi tent heater. No longer produced but can be found used.

Also, we have been wondering if a simple electric blanket might be workable (probably not until your girls are a little older). They apparently draw from 50 - 100 watts and so a queen and a couple of twins might work for us. I've got about 1350 usable watt hours in my batteries before I am 50% depleted so I'd need to run my little honda generator during the day to recharge.

For now, I am using a small catalytic heater. We used it in our Kelty Mantra 7 and it was enough to take the edge off down into the 20s. Zero degrees would have been another issue.

I'll be interested in your feedback.

 

[kevint]

Let me know how the Mr. Heater does. We use the Coleman pro-cat. I have a 20' propane hose and a dc converter to run the fan. We won't know until next winter how it does with the camper.

Concerning mounting the forced air heaters, I've given this some thought as well. I've thought you could install a 4" screw in deck plate (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=50667&subdeptNum=50688&classNum=50690) in the back panel which could be removed to insert a 4" flexible duct. I think they come in 6" as well. When you want the heat you could remove the plate. It should be a clean install that would be water/dust tight.

 

[ExpoMike]

I was in the same boat, looking at heater options when we had our Kamparoo trailer (same design as yours). Had we kept it and not gone to a Four Wheel Camper setup, I was looking at the Propex heater. The biggest factor for that and not the other models (which I looked at too) was since my primary rig was gas powered and I already had propane onboard with the trailer, I really didn't want to have to deal with a third fuel source.

Now when I was looking at converting my M1010 ambulance into a camper, I was looking at diesel powered accessories since it was diesel powered. This brought me back to a single source of fuel.

Any of those unit will work very well for you. I would likely go with the Propex and would buy it from Adventure Trailers as their support on sold products is second to none. Figured if I ever had a problem, they would take very good care of me.

BTW, we did have a Zodi tent heater and carried it for a few years but never used it. The fan it uses is noisy and not real effiecent. Since the unit would have to be outside, to start it up I would have to get up in the cold, go outside and fire it up. It just wasn't worth the hassle, even when it was 23* inside the Kamparoo. Now with the heater in the FWC, I just set the t-stat to 60* and it does all the work for me.

 

[kb7our]

"Any of those unit will work very well for you. I would likely go with the Propex and would buy it from Adventure Trailers as their support on sold products is second to none. Figured if I ever had a problem, they would take very good care of me."

Same here and in fact I've got one installed in the JKU to be used with an AT Habitat. Also the AT guys had one mounted in their composite Oasis concept trailer which has some design similarities to yours so you might want to ask them how the little Propex worked for their setup.

 

[dwh]

so I'm not too concerned about the CO safety at this point

Unlike open flame propane appliances, carbon monoxide is not the main safety issue with cat heaters.

The main issue is oxygen depletion coupled with increased carbon dioxide levels. But that's not really from the cat heater. It's a serious risk even without a catalytic heater, as human bodies deplete oxygen and increase carbon dioxide just by breathing. The main added danger of a cat heater is that it helps deplete the oxygen faster.



EDIT: And I'd go with the Propex. You've already got propane on the trailer and can probably find a way to permanently install the Propex. Only problem is I dunno if it'll be enough BTU at 0F temps...might have to get two of them.

 

[jonharis]

DWH Thanks! The risks are real, and with any internal heater we would for sure only use while awake. The propex is becoming more and more appealing. I thing the larger model would probably suit us well? People who have it please chime in! We are not looking to keep the tent 72 degrees, just raise teh temp 20-30 degrees especially during waking hours. I think a 25lb Lite Cylinder propane tank will fit fine in the existing location so having enough propane for an extended stay isn't too much of a concern. I'd like to have Propex dealers/manfacturers and Users chime in on the high altitude performance and the ability to heat this size of space. Thanks!

 

[dwh]

Curious, does the Propex produce much condensate?

None. The Propex is compartmentalized. One section has the burner, with its own intake from and exhaust to the outdoors. The other section draws air from the interior space, heats it and returns it to the interior space. The exhaust products don't get mixed with the interior air.

 

[Borrego60]

I use a proplex in my tent on my horizon and love it. As far as condensation none. I have used it down to mid 30s and have the inside of the tent in the high 70s. I love it.

Both Espar and Webasto units have gasoline versions. The Espar Airtronic has an optional high altitude compensator. Webasto does not.

If high altitude performance is your main concern, I would think you have narrowed it down to an Espar and possibly Propex. Another factor to consider is power draw..... Curious, does the Propex produce much condensate?

 

[FellowTraveler]

Espar Airtronic "diesel version"

I recently purchased an Espar Airtronic (diesel fueled) for my burb but have not installed it yet because of other interior mods in progress. From everything I've read this will suit my needs.

 

[spressomon]

Both Espar and Webasto units have gasoline versions. The Espar Airtronic has an optional high altitude compensator. Webasto does not.

If high altitude performance is your main concern, I would think you have narrowed it down to an Espar and possibly Propex. Another factor to consider is power draw..... Curious, does the Propex produce much condensate?

Not sure about the Webasto petrol variant but their diesel 3xxx and 5xxx models feature integrated automatic altitude compensation at no extra cost. They, from the conversation I had with them last year, intend to include this feature on the smaller 2000 model series sometime in the future. Webasto utilizes increased air volume to adjust for altitude...up to around 10,000 feet.

The Espar diesel units (Airtronic 4 and 5 series) offer an optional (about $350) electronic module that adjusts (i.e. lowers) the flow of fuel to the combustion chamber as altitude is increased.

From our experience with well over 100-nights in our Webasto 2000 equipped Kimberley Kamper we have found it inadequate at colder temps at elevations above about 3,000' or so. Combined with near zero insulating properties of canvas tent fabric the desire for a larger version with altitude compensation has become paramount.

From the multi-fuel perspective: Either way we would need to carry an additional fuel container. The Propex is relatively thirsty compared to either comparable output Espar or Webasto units. Coupled with the other propane devices we use we would either need a much larger single propane tank or an extra propane tank for our uses. Carrying diesel has been a non-issue. On a week long elk hunting trip where we were based camped at 7,500' and had received 6" of snow the Webasto used less than a gallon of diesel the entire week. We just needed some form of altitude adjustment to have allowed the little Webasto to have functioned better/even more efficiently at the temps and elevation we were camped at...

Just my $.02 and maybe all its worth

 

[Dave Bennett]

I have the Propex from Adventure Trailers and recommend it. Very quiet, very efficient. It worked very well as the nightime temps at Mormon Lake in N. AZ dipped into the low 30's/high 20's at night there during Overland Expo last weekend. Amazing piece of high quality gear.

Full write up is on my site.

 

[Borrego60]

Ya got that right Doc Remember Toys for Tots frost in the AM.

I have the Propex from Adventure Trailers and recommend it. Very quiet, very efficient. It worked very well as the nightime temps at Mormon Lake in N. AZ dipped into the low 30's/high 20's at night there during Overland Expo last weekend. Amazing piece of high quality gear.

Full write up is on my site.

 

[Rando]

I researched this same question fairly extensively for heating my Wildernest, which looks to be of a similar size and construction to your tent. The conclusion that I came to was that while the propex is certainly the most elegant solution, it probably would not produce enough heat to camp in really cold temperatures. I bought a Mr Heater 'Big Buddy' on sale for about $60 and did some testing with that. On high (which is ~5 KW) it will heat my wildernest about 25C (~50F) above ambient if it is fairly calm out. If it is windy I only get about half the temperature rise. The propex HS2800 is rated at 2.8 kW, so you will only get roughly half the temperature rise, which would barely get you to freezing if it is 0F out. I also tried a Zodi, which was pretty much useless.

I would recommend getting a Mr Heater to start, and see what sort of heat rise you get out of it, and whether you (or more importantly the family) find a heated tent practical before throwing down the big bucks on an Espar or Propex.