complete expedition bikes

[Streakerfreak]

I bought a 2010 KLX250s for $4500 new a year ago this week. I have outfitted it to what I need for an "expedition" bike. Total cost for what I added. . .$400. I might add $125 more to it in hand guards. I have perfectly good arms and legs so I don't think I would ever add a winch to any bike I owned.

I'm sorry man, but I don't think you will find many people willing to pay that much money for outfitting 6+ year old KLRs (or whatever you choose), when they can do it in a few hours at home with basic tools for less then half that price. I'm not even sure you will find BMW owners willing to do that, when they can just throw their credit card at Touratech and be done with it.

[jmacjgm]

If you could convince Hayes Diversified Technologies to finally release their diesel KLR to civilians you'd be in high demand. Check 'em out; they're right down the road from you.

[compassroseo]

Our design team has decided to use a lightweight aluminum Frame, 21" front tire, 18" rear tire, all the same features, 5 speed transmission and a single cylinder 10 hp DIESEL engine.the fame is close to the size of a crf 250 or klx250.
the price will be right around 6,000$
What does everyone think?

[zolo]

Uhm your design team went from using KLR base bikes at $8000 to Diesel one off bikes at $6000 in 6 Expo posts?
Damn they work fast huh.

Id say that without any details at all concerning what gear will be provided with said bike.
Its hard to determine anything.

I mean everyone is different and trying to build ONE new bike strictly for long distance travel on and off road is near impossible.
More details are needed about this Design team, Who, What, Why, How.... All that good stuff.

[seavoyage]

Our design team has decided to use a lightweight aluminum Frame, 21" front tire, 18" rear tire, all the same features, 5 speed transmission and a single cylinder 10 hp DIESEL engine.the fame is close to the size of a crf 250 or klx250.
the price will be right around 6,000$
What does everyone think?

Since this is the Expedition Portal, I'm making an assumption on the type of riding the vehicle is designed for, and your location in Hesperia, CA. Important criteria on selection of a 2-wheeled Expedition Motorcycle.

Cost: How much is the consumer willing to loose or pay in replacement or damaged body parts? This video makes a succinct point: The reality of cross-country travel off the pavement result in a high probability of dropping the motorcycle. On a recent short single day ride of less than 160 miles., a fellow rider with only 140 miles on the odometer, dropped his Triumph Tiger 3 times while off-pavement. Needless to say, due to the thought of repair costs, he was psychologically destroyed within 4-hours. If the rider's plans include travel outside of the Americas on Europe, many countries require a Carnet de Passages en Douane (CPD) equal or much more than the value of the vehicle (A USD$20K BMW R1200GSA may require a CPD of $USD$100K?) . Can you afford a total loss due to accident in a country not covered by insurance ? Large multi-cylinder models not sold in the local markets attract unwanted attention from theives, or corrupt officials at border crossings. Flat black is a popular option to 'camouflage' bikes to detract theives and vandals.

Size: Max weight 400 lbs.? KLR650s are a pain to pick up. Can you pick up the bike alone... if dropped in mud or sand? Even if a trek from Prudhoe Bay to Terra del Fuego may be over 98% paved, you may have to traverse some less ideal routes through the Equatorial jungle (and avoiding the Darien Gap). Yet the bike has to have the capacity to haul your gear at moderate freeway speeds (75 mph). Many motorcycle travelers that have done transcontinental or RTW trips, when interviewed after the trip, tend to make recommendations against taking a complex multi-cylinder Adventure tourer.#1 reason: excess weight. Re: winch? shovel? AKA 'Pioneer gear' - We don't mount on military motorcycles: excess weight.

Comfort: From wind, engine vibrations and your weight on you seat on 10-hr+ rides over 500 miles/day. 12V auxilliary power outlets for electric heated riding gear, GPS, 12V air compressor is highly recommended.

Durability: High mileage over rugged terrain (potholed roads, gravel, etc.) quickly overwhelm the suspension on a heavy motorcycle further laden with gear. The chassis and suspension must be able to withstand heavy loads under long periods of rough conditions. Can a cracked or broken frame be easily repaired: maybe best to stick to mild steel rather than aluminium frames. Can the bike be easily recovered if submerged in water? (are the spark plugs and air filter easily accessible? Is the vehicle light enough to turn over? Is there a way to cycle the motor manually?) On a recent pavement ride within 1 hour of San Francisco, we almost had a BMW R1200GSA slide off a concrete bridge that had water flowing 2" over the surface, into 5 feet of water. Additional investment in engine guards, bash plate, hand guards, etc. are essential, and with some of the new models or less mainstream models (Moto-Guzzi, Benelli) the parts are dificult to source. Protective equipment should come standard on a vehicle designed for expedition. Is long travel suspension really necessary? There seems to be a fad with CCM S-40 and Triumph Scramblers.

Reliability: Does the engine have a record of reliability over many years of use with many examples with over 100K miles? Will the bike run 5000 miles between oil changes (translate as oil capacity and level of tuning) General criticism of 'plated' highly tuned dirt bikes (ie. Husaberg, Beta, GasGas, Aprilia, Husqvarna) are: 500 mile oil change intervals, ~100 mile fuel range.
What mechanical/electrical failures are the model most prone to? The first 2-years of KTM990 EFI are notorious issues. Some KTM990 owners replace the EFI with the KTM950 carburetors. Despite a 19-litre fuel tank, we've had issues with Triumph Tiger 800s fuel capacity, when cruising at higher speeds with other Adventure bikes. A 250-300 mile fuel range (5 gallons +. and double if crossing large Australian, South American, Central Asian, North African deserts) would be critical, which brings up the following: Having a 6-speed wide ratio gearbox is desirable. A criticism of the Suzuki DRZ400 that replaced the DR350 is the loss of a 6-speed transmission. Can you access the countersprocket easily to change final drive rations? Although riding at night is discouraged, the lights should be powerful enough for off-road treks; and have a manual switch off as not to alarm areas where night driving is done with lights off (Egypt?)

Simplicity: Can you perform emergency repairs alone under austere conditions? My vote goes to air-cooled carbureted engines with a well sorted tool kit to: Set on a well-ballanced centerstand, remove axles, use side stand to break tire bead, repair flats; access spark plugs, and air filters; maintain fuel system. Can you repair or bypass a punctured coolant radiator or oil cooler? Even with engine guards, I punctured my oil cooler (Triumph Tiger) on a pavement ride through the Sequioas. Are spare parts available through your intended route? The closest Triumph dealer was 112 miles away, but the replacement part had to be shipped from the UK. What if the EFI mapping or fuel injectors fail? Can local mechanics repair your bike (probably if it's a <250cc Japanese (based) model)? Is there a probability you will need to disable ABS to ride downhill in slippery dirt/gravel conditions? If the electric starter fails: can you kick start or (heaven forbid) at least bump start the motor (Yes, with the help of a manual decompression lever)? Will it run if high octane fuel isn't available (Yes, if Diesel?)? The availability of tyre other than 21" or 19" front and 18" rear in many countries is difficult, good luck with sourcing a 140/80-17 for your BMW F650.

winch? shovel? AKA 'Pioneer gear' - We don't mount on military motorcycles: excess weight.

If your requirements are to stay within North America, within support of the mandufacturer's dealer network many of these issues may be irrelevant; but if your plans include travel to isolated areas; even if local: California 'Lost Coast', Death Valley, or the Alaska Highway through Yukon territory, you may want to reconsider your criteria. Cannondale Motorcycles would be a good business case study.

Solutions: Unfortunately the practical and realistic selection criteria narrows down the candidates to only a handful of brand/models: all but a few are no longer offered by their manufacturers for the US market. Maybe a detuned Rallye bike?

[compassroseo]

Yes they do work fast, that's their job. The bikes are not 'off' bikes they are going to be built from the ground up using high quality parts.
Yes your right, it's near impossible to build one do it all bike. And like another member said everybody has their own idea of the perfect bike. The bikes are intended to be a good starter bikes for newer riders. They That's why they are a 250 size. We do and will encourage modification of the bikes. And anyone who assumes that all of our changes to the bike are based on a single forum, would be incorrect. Most of the research comes from rides we talk to in person or over the phone as well as actual product testing from several people.

Our design team is made up of 4 people. Me, my business partner and riding buddy, an engineer and mechanic, and an avid expedition rider/mechanic

The dikes are very close to the same size is a klx250 ttr250 or crf250. There is only 3 colors on the bike black, green and some blue. They have Compass Rose hand guards\blinkers, C.R. brake and clutch levers, Front mounted warn winch, C.R. Rear rack and aluminum water proof and insulated containers, single head light with 2 aux. lights mounted to frame just behind the full skid plate and rock guards, all of the bikes also come with an axe, a shovel (both with hickory handles) a fire extinguisher and special compartment for a tool bag or first aid kit. The power plant for the Compass Rose Adventure (CRA400) is a air cooled single cylinder 420cc 10hp diesel engine paired with a manual 5 speed transmission. It has a chain drive to the 18" rear wheel. The front wheel is a 21" both have disk brakes. the engine is electric start with a manual start back up. The CRA400 will also use a goal zero solar panel the can be used to power the battery and 12v outlet as well as a USB charging port.

we will only build 4 bikes, which will be finished in the next few months, to be tested extensively in California. Then sent out a across the country with riders to be put through hell. Testing will take almost a year. The bikes will be available late next year. The price is still subject to change, but still around 6,000$

Tell me what you think? And I will be happy to go e more details just ask. =)

[seavoyage]

How about a Dakar Rally replica: Odes MCF450-R AKA Asiawing LX450. USD$2300 for complete motorcycle on Alibaba. Chinese copy of a Honda CRF450X, all parts compatible. Or as raced in 2012 Dakar by # 94 Wei Guang Hui Bike: Jincheng JC 450 Y cloned (or rebadged?) Yamaha WRF450. Roketa imports these type motorcycles into North America.
_DAK_2012_094V_1.JPGbwy1263290297e.jpg

Rally Kit from Mecasystems

Specifications

Engine type: 4 stroke 4 valve SOHC Liquid-cooled
Bore and stroke: 96mm x 62mm
Compression ratio: 12:0:1
Ignition: CDI with electronic advance and lighting coil
Starter: Electric / Kick
Transmission: five speed wide ratio
Final Drive: #520T 0ring-sealed chain: 13 tooth(front)48 tooth(rear)
Wheel Base: 1483mm
Trail: 110mm
Seat Height: 963mm
Ground clearance: 345mm
Fuel capacity: 7.2l
Tyres Front: 80/100-21
Tyres rear: 110/100-18
Front suspension: 41mm inverted cartridge fork with 16-position rebound and 16-position compression damping adjustment; 315mm travel
Rear suspension: single shock with adjustable spring preload, 17-position rebound damping adjustment, and compression damping adjustment separated into low-speed (13 positions) and high-speed (3.5 turns); 313mm travel
Front brakes: disc
Rear Brakes: disc
Dry weight: 105kg

450ccchina.jpg450ccchina1.jpg450ccchina3.jpg

More info

The Ode MCF450R is badged by Jawa in Europe as the 450KMX:

In Argentina the MCF450R is distributed by Backfire as the BXF450Z: and by Heikon as the TT450E

AsiaWing Tests:

Yes they do work fast, that's their job. The bikes are not 'off' bikes they are going to be built from the ground up using high quality parts.
Yes your right, it's near impossible to build one do it all bike. And like another member said everybody has their own idea of the perfect bike. The bikes are intended to be a good starter bikes for newer riders. They That's why they are a 250 size. We do and will encourage modification of the bikes. And anyone who assumes that all of our changes to the bike are based on a single forum, would be incorrect. Most of the research comes from rides we talk to in person or over the phone as well as actual product testing from several people.

Our design team is made up of 4 people. Me, my business partner and riding buddy, an engineer and mechanic, and an avid expedition rider/mechanic

The dikes are very close to the same size is a klx250 ttr250 or crf250. There is only 3 colors on the bike black, green and some blue. They have Compass Rose hand guards\blinkers, C.R. brake and clutch levers, Front mounted warn winch, C.R. Rear rack and aluminum water proof and insulated containers, single head light with 2 aux. lights mounted to frame just behind the full skid plate and rock guards, all of the bikes also come with an axe, a shovel (both with hickory handles) a fire extinguisher and special compartment for a tool bag or first aid kit. The power plant for the Compass Rose Adventure (CRA400) is a air cooled single cylinder 420cc 10hp diesel engine paired with a manual 5 speed transmission. It has a chain drive to the 18" rear wheel. The front wheel is a 21" both have disk brakes. the engine is electric start with a manual start back up. The CRA400 will also use a goal zero solar panel the can be used to power the battery and 12v outlet as well as a USB charging port.

we will only build 4 bikes, which will be finished in the next few months, to be tested extensively in California. Then sent out a across the country with riders to be put through hell. Testing will take almost a year. The bikes will be available late next year. The price is still subject to change, but still around 6,000$

Tell me what you think? And I will be happy to go e more details just ask. =)

[Cabrito]

Hey Drew (Seavoyage) - Nice to see you over here on the portal.

[Frank]

After owning a KLR, nearly everything about the bike needs to be redesigned to be effective. Of course this is my opinion, many folks ride these bikes around the world in near stock form. I myself would find that totally insane.

-The engine is known for a few major downfalls. If it were an automobile, the bike would be considered a lemon.
-The electric system lacks power for additional electronics. Power a GPS and a heated fleece, you've damn near exceeded the capabilities of the allotted amps.
-The suspension is totally insufficient for anything more than a 180# rider. Forget about gear.
-While the brakes were upgraded for the 2008+ model, the still suck.
-The bike has no center stand
-Many claim that the hardware (the subframe bolts) are very soft
-The wire harness was recalled

...see where I am going with this?

That said, the bike is a GREAT platform to be built on.

Things mentioned in this thread about the bike you may build sounds very nice! A bike priced a little over the KLR price tag but not that of a 990/Tenere/BMW/Vstrom that is proven and has a bit of internet hype could be a gold mine.

Best of luck to you. I will be paying attention...

If this is your site, get it up and running! http://compassroseadventuregear.com/

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